Dealership says lowering car voids warranty
11-03-2005, 12:50 PM
#12
Contributors
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MIAMI B*CH
Posts: 6,959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
I get everything done by my dealer (except chippin') as he is the best!
sorry for you BRO.
not true just force them to proof why??
sorry for you BRO.
not true just force them to proof why??
11-03-2005, 02:16 PM
#13
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Originally Posted by ats77' date='Nov 3 2005, 04:50 PM
I get everything done by my dealer (except chippin') as he is the best!
sorry for you BRO.
not true just force them to proof why??
sorry for you BRO.
not true just force them to proof why??
[snapback]193098[/snapback]
I also get all after-market work done at my dealer--which is Dinan certified. I think you are way ahead of the game if your dealer does the work. If nothing else, your dealer should inform you if they percieve a potential problem with an after-market item, even in the middle of an installation, and find out if you want to do or to continue with the installation. I always ask my dealer if a problem is likely to develop and to let me know if anything comes up during an installation that might signal a potential problem.
11-03-2005, 02:26 PM
#14
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 18,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F02 LCI Individual
Model Year: 2013
Originally Posted by ipse dixit' date='Nov 3 2005, 06:41 AM
But in the original poster's message his problem is with his brakes (and sensors).? This has nothing to do with him lowering the car -- which is a suspension issue.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
[snapback]192800[/snapback]
Also, just think about the very complex system in the car... DSC is monitoring all wheels. Brakes and suspension have something in common... They are on the same wheel, the wheel gets monitored by sensors for DSC, ABS, maybe ARS and other stuff.
Do you really think this problem has nothing to do with the fact the car was lowered?
It is very realistic to say, that the problem HAS to do with the lowering.
Therefore, the warranty is voided, BMW has nothing to do with it.
11-03-2005, 02:31 PM
#15
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Originally Posted by Iceman' date='Nov 3 2005, 06:26 PM
[quote name='ipse dixit' date='Nov 3 2005, 06:41 AM']
But in the original poster's message his problem is with his brakes (and sensors).? This has nothing to do with him lowering the car -- which is a suspension issue.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
But in the original poster's message his problem is with his brakes (and sensors).? This has nothing to do with him lowering the car -- which is a suspension issue.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
[snapback]192800[/snapback]
Also, just think about the very complex system in the car... DSC is monitoring all wheels. Brakes and suspension have something in common... They are on the same wheel, the wheel gets monitored by sensors for DSC, ABS, maybe ARS and other stuff.
Do you really think this problem has nothing to do with the fact the car was lowered?
It is very realistic to say, that the problem HAS to do with the lowering.
Therefore, the warranty is voided, BMW has nothing to do with it.
[snapback]193146[/snapback]
[/quote]To clarify, the warranty is not voided, right? Its just that BMW does not have to honor its warranty on the problem that arose because of the after-market work.
11-03-2005, 02:35 PM
#16
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 18,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F02 LCI Individual
Model Year: 2013
Originally Posted by donv' date='Nov 4 2005, 01:31 AM
To clarify, the warranty is not voided, right? Its just that BMW does not have to honor its warranty on the problem that arose because of the after-market work.
[snapback]193147[/snapback]
The warranty IS voided on the suspension and ALL stuff that is affected by it!
Now that is the problem here. BMW can claim that the malfunctioning sensor is malfunctioning because of the suspension, what causes errors in the system. If they do so, and obviously they do (and IMHO they are right), you can't do anything about it, unless you can PROVE that the suspension has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with it!
But since the new suspension is aftermarket and not BMW, YOU have to show PROVE, not BMW.
11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
#17
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Originally Posted by Iceman' date='Nov 3 2005, 06:35 PM
[quote name='donv' date='Nov 4 2005, 01:31 AM']To clarify, the warranty is not voided, right? Its just that BMW does not have to honor its warranty on the problem that arose because of the after-market work.
[snapback]193147[/snapback]
The warranty IS voided on the suspension and ALL stuff that is affected by it!
Now that is the problem here. BMW can claim that the malfunctioning sensor is malfunctioning because of the suspension, what causes errors in the system. If they do so, and obviously they do (and IMHO they are right), you can't do anything about it, unless you can PROVE that the suspension has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with it!
But since the new suspension is aftermarket and not BMW, YOU have to show PROVE, not BMW.
[snapback]193149[/snapback]
[/quote]Edited: Almost exactly, IMO. See my post above for similar thoughts. But, I think that BMW is obligated to "prove" (i.e., "demonstrate"--see quote below) that the after-market part caused the problem if taken to court. In court, the best-bet for the person seeking warranty coverage is to be able to prove that the after-market item did not cause the problem because, as you have said before, BMW will have a good argument that the part did cause the problem. I think that BMW's need to "prove/demonstrate" if taken to court is implied by the law as follows:""This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused."
Where are the attorneys when we need them? ~{;^)
11-03-2005, 02:45 PM
#18
Senior Members
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iceman' date='Nov 3 2005, 03:26 PM
[quote name='ipse dixit' date='Nov 3 2005, 06:41 AM']
But in the original poster's message his problem is with his brakes (and sensors).? This has nothing to do with him lowering the car -- which is a suspension issue.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
But in the original poster's message his problem is with his brakes (and sensors).? This has nothing to do with him lowering the car -- which is a suspension issue.
Unless BMW can prove that the suspension system is causing the brake sensor to malfunction -- unlikely to nearly impossible -- BMW cannot disclaim his warranty request.
[snapback]192800[/snapback]
Also, just think about the very complex system in the car... DSC is monitoring all wheels. Brakes and suspension have something in common... They are on the same wheel, the wheel gets monitored by sensors for DSC, ABS, maybe ARS and other stuff.
Do you really think this problem has nothing to do with the fact the car was lowered?
It is very realistic to say, that the problem HAS to do with the lowering.
Therefore, the warranty is voided, BMW has nothing to do with it.
[snapback]193146[/snapback]
[/quote]Well, if BMW can prove it, then sure the warranty is voided.
But that's the kicker, BMW needs to actually prove it. It is not enough simply to surmise that (as you phrase it) it "is very realistic to say, that the problem HAS to do with the lowering."
I've actually installed aftermarket springs on an E60. You don't necessarily change/alter the brakes/rotors or sway bars on the car when putting in new springs or shocks. Unless BMW is going to take the position that simply removing and putting back an OEM part voids the warranty, of course ...
11-03-2005, 02:48 PM
#19
Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: NEW: 2008 535xit, VIP Modular Wheels, KW V3, Prior Design Bodykit, Rotora 12 piston brakes. Custom paint by Platinum VIP. and more to come.
OLD: 2004 Jet Black 530i, 20" Iforged Sprints, Rear reflectors, Xenon interior, H&R Springs, Premium Package, Xenon Adaptive headlights
Originally Posted by ch7656' date='Nov 2 2005, 04:45 PM
In OC...who is the dealer...Irvine, Crevier, Sterling??
[snapback]192683[/snapback]
11-03-2005, 02:49 PM
#20
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 18,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F02 LCI Individual
Model Year: 2013
Originally Posted by ipse dixit' date='Nov 4 2005, 01:45 AM
But that's the kicker, BMW needs to actually prove it.
[snapback]193152[/snapback]