chipping ur car
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Kent, UK
My Ride: E60 530d Sport - Carbon Black, Black Dakota Leather, Media Pack (satnav, bluetooth, CD changer), heated font seats, through load
I wondered the same thing.
I liked the idea of not changing the turbo boost pressure, as I don't want to cook the turbo. However simply squirting more fuel in, which is all that a tuning box will do, isn't a great idea.
A remap is quite a bit more sophisticated, and therefore more expensive. But the result is, I think, better.
I've got more power/torque, which I'm using, and my mileage has NOT suffered one bit. I'm sure that plugin box type solutions will create more power, but at the price of slightly worse economy.
That's my conclusion. I might be wrong. In the end, I think both types of solution are valid.
Does the cost difference between remap and plugin box compare to the fuel cost difference. That depends on miles driven, and driving style. Sorry, I don't have time to calculate how many miles you'd need to do to pay for the ?300-400 extra. If the difference is say 5MPG, it would take a wile to recoup the difference.
I liked the idea of not changing the turbo boost pressure, as I don't want to cook the turbo. However simply squirting more fuel in, which is all that a tuning box will do, isn't a great idea.
A remap is quite a bit more sophisticated, and therefore more expensive. But the result is, I think, better.
I've got more power/torque, which I'm using, and my mileage has NOT suffered one bit. I'm sure that plugin box type solutions will create more power, but at the price of slightly worse economy.
That's my conclusion. I might be wrong. In the end, I think both types of solution are valid.
Does the cost difference between remap and plugin box compare to the fuel cost difference. That depends on miles driven, and driving style. Sorry, I don't have time to calculate how many miles you'd need to do to pay for the ?300-400 extra. If the difference is say 5MPG, it would take a wile to recoup the difference.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 134
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From: U K
My Ride: M6 Silverstone II
Originally Posted by abs' date='Jun 12 2005, 06:16 PM
anyone thinking of or have actually chipped or tuned their e60.
would like to hear if there is noticable difference in bhp and is it safe to do so
would like to hear if there is noticable difference in bhp and is it safe to do so
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http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=...60&#entry139776
Senior Members
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 461
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From: SE London/Kent Borders (UK)
Originally Posted by BangleBox_530d' date='Jun 15 2005, 08:58 PM
I wondered the same thing.
I liked the idea of not changing the turbo boost pressure, as I don't want to cook the turbo. However simply squirting more fuel in, which is all that a tuning box will do, isn't a great idea.
A remap is quite a bit more sophisticated, and therefore more expensive. But the result is, I think, better.
I've got more power/torque, which I'm using, and my mileage has NOT suffered one bit. I'm sure that plugin box type solutions will create more power, but at the price of slightly worse economy.
That's my conclusion. I might be wrong. In the end, I think both types of solution are valid.
Does the cost difference between remap and plugin box compare to the fuel cost difference. That depends on miles driven, and driving style. Sorry, I don't have time to calculate how many miles you'd need to do to pay for the ?300-400 extra. If the difference is say 5MPG, it would take a wile to recoup the difference.
I liked the idea of not changing the turbo boost pressure, as I don't want to cook the turbo. However simply squirting more fuel in, which is all that a tuning box will do, isn't a great idea.
A remap is quite a bit more sophisticated, and therefore more expensive. But the result is, I think, better.
I've got more power/torque, which I'm using, and my mileage has NOT suffered one bit. I'm sure that plugin box type solutions will create more power, but at the price of slightly worse economy.
That's my conclusion. I might be wrong. In the end, I think both types of solution are valid.
Does the cost difference between remap and plugin box compare to the fuel cost difference. That depends on miles driven, and driving style. Sorry, I don't have time to calculate how many miles you'd need to do to pay for the ?300-400 extra. If the difference is say 5MPG, it would take a wile to recoup the difference.
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Gudge.
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From: San Francisco Bay area
My Ride: '05 545i, silver gray, black leather with anthracite maple wood, sport package, premium sound, navigation, cold weather package, electric rear sunshade, folding rear seat, satellite radio prep, PIAA 4150K fogs, red rear reflectors, hardwired Valentine One
From what I understand, chipping a normally aspirated engine will not produce significant power increases. On turbo engines (gas and diesel) is another story. Most chipping for normally aspirated engines claim a few percent power increase--not worth it (assuming you'd actually feel it).
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: SE London/Kent Borders (UK)
Originally Posted by Gudge' date='Jun 15 2005, 10:36 PM
Thanks for this useful insight Banglebox.......I had not appreciated the difference between the tuningbox/DMS solution.? Further comparisons by other members would be most helpul.
Gudge.
Gudge.
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Will let you all know what they come back with.
Gudge
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 461
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From: SE London/Kent Borders (UK)
Here is the reply from MikeCooper at DMS:
Many thanks for the email and certainly no offence taken by you asking what are logical and reasonable questions.
The 'Tuning Boxes' do offer a substantial uplift in power and torque and they achieve this in predominently one way. They are an interface between the ECU and the fuel pump and by confusing both produce higher fuel pressure.
The systems seem to work fairly well on BMW diesels of your model. On other makes (Mercedes etc) they generally cause fuel pump problems. A tell tale sign that one has been fitted or is fitted on these cars is weeping around fuel pump unions and injector seals.
Whilst we increase fuel pressure slightly there is more emphasis on control of all elements of fuel, timing and control of the variable valve turbo. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the effects of tuning boxes but the nearest analogy I can think of is 'St John's Ambulance First Aider or Consultant Surgeon'. Both have there uses and are competent but who would you go to if you had a problem.
Before we carry out any work on any car we read record and analyse the ecu data. When this has been done and only when this has been done do we insert modified data to the ecu.
Kindest regards
Mike Cooper
Can't argue with that. Now let's see what the tuningbox.com camp has to say.
Just emailed both Mike Cooper at DMS, and Joanna at Westward Engineering (UK Tuningbox distributors), to get them to explain the relative merits of their products compared to their rival's.........should set the cat among the pigeons!
Will let you all know what they come back with.
Gudge
Many thanks for the email and certainly no offence taken by you asking what are logical and reasonable questions.
The 'Tuning Boxes' do offer a substantial uplift in power and torque and they achieve this in predominently one way. They are an interface between the ECU and the fuel pump and by confusing both produce higher fuel pressure.
The systems seem to work fairly well on BMW diesels of your model. On other makes (Mercedes etc) they generally cause fuel pump problems. A tell tale sign that one has been fitted or is fitted on these cars is weeping around fuel pump unions and injector seals.
Whilst we increase fuel pressure slightly there is more emphasis on control of all elements of fuel, timing and control of the variable valve turbo. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the effects of tuning boxes but the nearest analogy I can think of is 'St John's Ambulance First Aider or Consultant Surgeon'. Both have there uses and are competent but who would you go to if you had a problem.
Before we carry out any work on any car we read record and analyse the ecu data. When this has been done and only when this has been done do we insert modified data to the ecu.
Kindest regards
Mike Cooper
Can't argue with that. Now let's see what the tuningbox.com camp has to say.
Originally Posted by Gudge' date='Jun 16 2005, 09:40 AM
[quote name='Gudge' date='Jun 15 2005, 10:36 PM']
Thanks for this useful insight Banglebox.......I had not appreciated the difference between the tuningbox/DMS solution.? Further comparisons by other members would be most helpul.
Gudge.
Thanks for this useful insight Banglebox.......I had not appreciated the difference between the tuningbox/DMS solution.? Further comparisons by other members would be most helpul.
Gudge.
[snapback]139847[/snapback]
Will let you all know what they come back with.
Gudge
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[/quote]
Contributors
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 3
From: London, UK
My Ride: BMW E60 520d SE Saloon M47 2.0dTitanium Grey II, Grey−Dakota Leather, Visibility Package, Media Package, Through Load System, Lumbar support − fr seats, Automatic Air Conditioning−Advanced, High beam assistant, Hi−Fi Loudspeak
Model Year: 2006
See conversation between me and Mike. I too had this dilemma.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce
Thanks for the reply. The two systems of tuning are completely
different.
The 'smart box' really isn't very smart at all. It is a plug in
interface
unit that basically just increases the fuel pressure.
We remap the ecu with software that controls a great many parameters.
One of
the areas we remap is the control for the variable geometry turbo on
the
car.
It's a bit like comparing a blow fly with a tornado fighter. They have
both
got wings and they both fly but that's about all they have in common.
Kind regards
Mike Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Miranda
To: Mike Cooper DMS
Subject: Re: 520D
Thanks Mike,
Is this is plug and play version? Also why is this so
much more expensive that the van aaken smartbox?
Regards,
Bruce.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce
Thanks for the reply. The two systems of tuning are completely
different.
The 'smart box' really isn't very smart at all. It is a plug in
interface
unit that basically just increases the fuel pressure.
We remap the ecu with software that controls a great many parameters.
One of
the areas we remap is the control for the variable geometry turbo on
the
car.
It's a bit like comparing a blow fly with a tornado fighter. They have
both
got wings and they both fly but that's about all they have in common.
Kind regards
Mike Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Miranda
To: Mike Cooper DMS
Subject: Re: 520D
Thanks Mike,
Is this is plug and play version? Also why is this so
much more expensive that the van aaken smartbox?
Regards,
Bruce.
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