WHy is the 335i so much more loaded than the 535
11-11-2007, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by EBMCS03' post='492936' date='Nov 11 2007, 02:15 PM
Yup, as said its all about marketing management... take a marketing class and you'll understand why BMW does what they do... relative to the competition and relative to their own product line. They have to price them where they dont step on their own toes and are competitive in the market. BMW prices the 335 a bit higher than Infiniti's G37 because they think they can. BMW's positioning is higher in the market than others in the same segment... has more Brand Equity than the others... sooo you pay what BMW thinks they can charge you.
Take a look at this... I know its old but I havent been able to find a newer list. but Infinti or Nissan is no where in the top 50 global brands. I believe the couple brands in the Tier 1 category for luxury cars is BMW Mercedes and Lexus... Infiniti is a Tier 2 brand... they'll love to move into the Tier 1 category but just not yet... just some stuff to show why pricing is the way it is...
Attachment 40286
Take a look at this... I know its old but I havent been able to find a newer list. but Infinti or Nissan is no where in the top 50 global brands. I believe the couple brands in the Tier 1 category for luxury cars is BMW Mercedes and Lexus... Infiniti is a Tier 2 brand... they'll love to move into the Tier 1 category but just not yet... just some stuff to show why pricing is the way it is...
Attachment 40286
we wrote our responds about the same time but yeah pretty much the same thing I said.. Marketing. good explenation also. from 1 kid to another.. hehe.
j/k
11-11-2007, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by trboda6' post='492945' date='Nov 11 2007, 11:31 AM
we wrote our responds about the same time but yeah pretty much the same thing I said.. Marketing.
Ya I noticed...
11-11-2007, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by redwhiteblue' post='492848' date='Nov 11 2007, 07:24 AM
I was just looking at building a 335 on bmw website and the 335 has so many more features built into the base price than the 535. For example the sport suspension is alread built into the base price of the 335 coupe. The sport package only costs 1100 bucks which is simply to get the upgraded rims with 18s and a sport stearing wheel v. sport package is 3800 on the 535 to get all the suspension and rims.
The 335 has logic 7 as their base stereo and the 5er does not-it is another 1600 bucks.
I know there were a couple more things but even those 2 things. Having the sport suspension and logic 7 in the base price-whats up with that. Usually its the higher end models that have more features included.
I dont like that about bmw how they put better standard features in a base model
The 335 has logic 7 as their base stereo and the 5er does not-it is another 1600 bucks.
I know there were a couple more things but even those 2 things. Having the sport suspension and logic 7 in the base price-whats up with that. Usually its the higher end models that have more features included.
I dont like that about bmw how they put better standard features in a base model
If you think its different between models, which is well explained as marketing driven above, compare similar models and how BMW offers the exact same model between countries. For example, the US offers options in packages, whre they offer individual options in Europe. Its also marketing driven and has to do with how the competition offers cars in those other countries.
11-11-2007, 04:12 PM
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What everyone says makes good sense but I think you would be hard pressed to find any other car maker have less standard options in their higher end model compared to their starting model.
I do understand the ARS is in the 5er sport but I would not go as far as saying the sport package is that much better. Given the comfort seats are worth about 10k IMO. But the sport tuned calibration and the sweet bigger wheels are the bulk of the package and both get that. I do agree the ARS and comfort seats are pretty signigant so I can see why there is the added price to that. But the 3 gets a sportier steering wheel just so you know.
I guess what it comes down to is a lot simpler than I thought-basically why the 5er doesnt get logic 7 standard if the 335 does. Just seems like upgraded sound should be standard in an upgraded model. Other than that come to think of it the 5er does get steptronic for free so I guess I jumped to conclusions.
What is more reasonable is to say how impressive the 335 is for 40k-basically a rocket with lots of standard goodies like awesome looking 18s (soon to have 19s available for 1100 option which are going to look hto on that car) a great sound system and the sport tuned suspension which is so important in a bimmer-nice little package there for 40k.
I think bmw has hit huge home runs with the 335 and now the 1 series-Not that the 5er isnt great but for 30-40k which is the 1 and 3 series that is in many peoples budget more so than 50-70 for the 5er and they are just selling a crapload of 3ers which is good for them. I dont really care about having exclusive cars-as long as I love driving my car I could care less if everyone else has one
I do understand the ARS is in the 5er sport but I would not go as far as saying the sport package is that much better. Given the comfort seats are worth about 10k IMO. But the sport tuned calibration and the sweet bigger wheels are the bulk of the package and both get that. I do agree the ARS and comfort seats are pretty signigant so I can see why there is the added price to that. But the 3 gets a sportier steering wheel just so you know.
I guess what it comes down to is a lot simpler than I thought-basically why the 5er doesnt get logic 7 standard if the 335 does. Just seems like upgraded sound should be standard in an upgraded model. Other than that come to think of it the 5er does get steptronic for free so I guess I jumped to conclusions.
What is more reasonable is to say how impressive the 335 is for 40k-basically a rocket with lots of standard goodies like awesome looking 18s (soon to have 19s available for 1100 option which are going to look hto on that car) a great sound system and the sport tuned suspension which is so important in a bimmer-nice little package there for 40k.
I think bmw has hit huge home runs with the 335 and now the 1 series-Not that the 5er isnt great but for 30-40k which is the 1 and 3 series that is in many peoples budget more so than 50-70 for the 5er and they are just selling a crapload of 3ers which is good for them. I dont really care about having exclusive cars-as long as I love driving my car I could care less if everyone else has one
11-11-2007, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by redwhiteblue' post='493040' date='Nov 11 2007, 08:12 PM
What everyone says makes good sense but I think you would be hard pressed to find any other car maker have less standard options in their higher end model compared to their starting model.
I do understand the ARS is in the 5er sport but I would not go as far as saying the sport package is that much better. Given the comfort seats are worth about 10k IMO. But the sport tuned calibration and the sweet bigger wheels are the bulk of the package and both get that. I do agree the ARS and comfort seats are pretty signigant so I can see why there is the added price to that. But the 3 gets a sportier steering wheel just so you know.
I guess what it comes down to is a lot simpler than I thought-basically why the 5er doesnt get logic 7 standard if the 335 does. Just seems like upgraded sound should be standard in an upgraded model. Other than that come to think of it the 5er does get steptronic for free so I guess I jumped to conclusions.
What is more reasonable is to say how impressive the 335 is for 40k-basically a rocket with lots of standard goodies like awesome looking 18s (soon to have 19s available for 1100 option which are going to look hto on that car) a great sound system and the sport tuned suspension which is so important in a bimmer-nice little package there for 40k.
I think bmw has hit huge home runs with the 335 and now the 1 series-Not that the 5er isnt great but for 30-40k which is the 1 and 3 series that is in many peoples budget more so than 50-70 for the 5er and they are just selling a crapload of 3ers which is good for them. I dont really care about having exclusive cars-as long as I love driving my car I could care less if everyone else has one
I do understand the ARS is in the 5er sport but I would not go as far as saying the sport package is that much better. Given the comfort seats are worth about 10k IMO. But the sport tuned calibration and the sweet bigger wheels are the bulk of the package and both get that. I do agree the ARS and comfort seats are pretty signigant so I can see why there is the added price to that. But the 3 gets a sportier steering wheel just so you know.
I guess what it comes down to is a lot simpler than I thought-basically why the 5er doesnt get logic 7 standard if the 335 does. Just seems like upgraded sound should be standard in an upgraded model. Other than that come to think of it the 5er does get steptronic for free so I guess I jumped to conclusions.
What is more reasonable is to say how impressive the 335 is for 40k-basically a rocket with lots of standard goodies like awesome looking 18s (soon to have 19s available for 1100 option which are going to look hto on that car) a great sound system and the sport tuned suspension which is so important in a bimmer-nice little package there for 40k.
I think bmw has hit huge home runs with the 335 and now the 1 series-Not that the 5er isnt great but for 30-40k which is the 1 and 3 series that is in many peoples budget more so than 50-70 for the 5er and they are just selling a crapload of 3ers which is good for them. I dont really care about having exclusive cars-as long as I love driving my car I could care less if everyone else has one
The 3 series and the 5 series in bmw are looked at in totally different perspectives to bmw. they are not looked at the 5 being the higher model and the 3 being the lower. in basic terms bmw looks at it like the 3 is our sport line coupe/sedan, and the 5 is our sedan.. each appealing to different customers. what you fail to notice is that the 335i is the one with the standard options. the 328i does not... so to bmw since they look at the 3 series as a whole they offer a simple one 328i and ofcourse a loaded higher model 335i. same thing goes for the 5.. they offer lower model 528's, 535's which you can play around and customize and then the highest product in that class being the 550 and M come with a couple things standard built in. So you cant really say ohh the lower class car being the 335i comes with more than the 5 because its not just a lower class car anymore its a copmpletly different product all together. I bet you cant find 1 representative or sales person that will refer to the 3 series as the lower model... they will always resort to describing it in some form of marketing term by saying its for someone who wants the best sports car in the market or in its class, and for the 3 series 4 door they may say its for the person that wants a bmw but dosent need a big sedan.. or dosent have a big family ect ect... what im trying to say is that the 335i is not really a lower model I for sure know if I were at the light in a new 335i and was next to a 525i with no options I certainly wouldnt think that car is in a higher class than me as im sure many here can agree. I agree with you when you say the 335i is a steal at the msrp of around 40k but price amongst the 335i and the 5 series is irrelavant. they are targeted at different consumers they dont really loose sales of eachother. For the most part people dont compare the price of the 3 when they are buying a 5 because thats not what they are buying so they only compare the 5 and the different model 5's 528's ,535's, 550's m's and untimatly settle with one then pick their options and the sale is made. No salesmen really looses the sale of a 5 because of the pricing of the 3 and what the 3 has to offer because if the customer really cared about a coupe then that what he would buy. another lenthy post but i hope it clears it up a bit more.
11-11-2007, 08:38 PM
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here is another example of market forces, the 335i base price here in Australia is AUD 108K given that at present the AUD is 0.90 against the USD that means we pay around USD100k for the same car. yes we are further away and there is a 10% import duty on the FOB price which closes the gap to some degree. With a population of just over 20M we are unfortunately in a position where we have to pay a large premium over a much much larger market.
One impact of this is that the prestige associated with the BMW brand is emphasized as it is more illusive to the genral population. In Australia Lexus is in the same segmant however as they are manufactured in Japan they do not hold the same presige and model for model they are much cheaper than BMW. I think this confirms the point made earlier that BMW is in the business of making money and therefor they charge as much as they can get away with, just as any successful business does.
One impact of this is that the prestige associated with the BMW brand is emphasized as it is more illusive to the genral population. In Australia Lexus is in the same segmant however as they are manufactured in Japan they do not hold the same presige and model for model they are much cheaper than BMW. I think this confirms the point made earlier that BMW is in the business of making money and therefor they charge as much as they can get away with, just as any successful business does.
11-11-2007, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by trboda6' post='493100' date='Nov 12 2007, 12:02 AM
I think your gettin closer to understanding it but your still off a bit.
The 3 series and the 5 series in bmw are looked at in totally different perspectives to bmw. they are not looked at the 5 being the higher model and the 3 being the lower. in basic terms bmw looks at it like the 3 is our sport line coupe/sedan, and the 5 is our sedan.. each appealing to different customers. what you fail to notice is that the 335i is the one with the standard options. the 328i does not... so to bmw since they look at the 3 series as a whole they offer a simple one 328i and ofcourse a loaded higher model 335i. same thing goes for the 5.. they offer lower model 528's, 535's which you can play around and customize and then the highest product in that class being the 550 and M come with a couple things standard built in. So you cant really say ohh the lower class car being the 335i comes with more than the 5 because its not just a lower class car anymore its a copmpletly different product all together. I bet you cant find 1 representative or sales person that will refer to the 3 series as the lower model... they will always resort to describing it in some form of marketing term by saying its for someone who wants the best sports car in the market or in its class, and for the 3 series 4 door they may say its for the person that wants a bmw but dosent need a big sedan.. or dosent have a big family ect ect... what im trying to say is that the 335i is not really a lower model I for sure know if I were at the light in a new 335i and was next to a 525i with no options I certainly wouldnt think that car is in a higher class than me as im sure many here can agree. I agree with you when you say the 335i is a steal at the msrp of around 40k but price amongst the 335i and the 5 series is irrelavant. they are targeted at different consumers they dont really loose sales of eachother. For the most part people dont compare the price of the 3 when they are buying a 5 because thats not what they are buying so they only compare the 5 and the different model 5's 528's ,535's, 550's m's and untimatly settle with one then pick their options and the sale is made. No salesmen really looses the sale of a 5 because of the pricing of the 3 and what the 3 has to offer because if the customer really cared about a coupe then that what he would buy. another lenthy post but i hope it clears it up a bit more.
The 3 series and the 5 series in bmw are looked at in totally different perspectives to bmw. they are not looked at the 5 being the higher model and the 3 being the lower. in basic terms bmw looks at it like the 3 is our sport line coupe/sedan, and the 5 is our sedan.. each appealing to different customers. what you fail to notice is that the 335i is the one with the standard options. the 328i does not... so to bmw since they look at the 3 series as a whole they offer a simple one 328i and ofcourse a loaded higher model 335i. same thing goes for the 5.. they offer lower model 528's, 535's which you can play around and customize and then the highest product in that class being the 550 and M come with a couple things standard built in. So you cant really say ohh the lower class car being the 335i comes with more than the 5 because its not just a lower class car anymore its a copmpletly different product all together. I bet you cant find 1 representative or sales person that will refer to the 3 series as the lower model... they will always resort to describing it in some form of marketing term by saying its for someone who wants the best sports car in the market or in its class, and for the 3 series 4 door they may say its for the person that wants a bmw but dosent need a big sedan.. or dosent have a big family ect ect... what im trying to say is that the 335i is not really a lower model I for sure know if I were at the light in a new 335i and was next to a 525i with no options I certainly wouldnt think that car is in a higher class than me as im sure many here can agree. I agree with you when you say the 335i is a steal at the msrp of around 40k but price amongst the 335i and the 5 series is irrelavant. they are targeted at different consumers they dont really loose sales of eachother. For the most part people dont compare the price of the 3 when they are buying a 5 because thats not what they are buying so they only compare the 5 and the different model 5's 528's ,535's, 550's m's and untimatly settle with one then pick their options and the sale is made. No salesmen really looses the sale of a 5 because of the pricing of the 3 and what the 3 has to offer because if the customer really cared about a coupe then that what he would buy. another lenthy post but i hope it clears it up a bit more.
The 6 series is bmws sport coupe as well that is faster than the 335 and probably one of the faster in its class. The 3 series is both the entry level sedan compared to the 5 and the entry level coupe compared to the 6.
It is not a coocidence that most 3 series people are younger lower income people. When people can afford it they buy a 6 if tehy want a coupe or 5 if they want a sedan-(not counting 7s here)-
I do see people choosing a 335 over a 528 if similar priced due to the engine power-but nobody would choose a 335 sedan over a 535 sedan if they had the dough-or a very small percentage.
Same goes with the X3-its the entry level SUV. A very small percentage prefers an X3 if they could instead have an x5. Every car market has its entry level sedan and is considered the lower class despite how bmw sales reps want to spin it
11-11-2007, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by redwhiteblue' post='493133' date='Nov 12 2007, 07:26 AM
I have to completely disagree with this I am sorry. The 3 series is bmws current entry level car within the USA. The 335 is the top entry level car but is still a class down from the 5er. The 335 came in a sedan before it came in any coupe. People also buy the sedan more than the coupe so there is no good reason to buy a 4 door 335 if you could afford a 535. If your point is needing to transport 4 passengers then there is no way someone would buy a 335 sedan over a 535 sedan or very few.
11-12-2007, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ipp' post='493151' date='Nov 12 2007, 04:26 AM
Totally wrong. I know many people able to afford 5ers and even 7ers who chose the 3er because the compact format was better to them. It hasn't to do with entry level in this case. IMHO 335i is as 'premium' as +/-525i.
Not sure why people have to argue. It is a fact that is stated by bmw I belive even on their site and definetly by many articles you read on the 3er every year-commenting on how "bmws entry level sedan" the 3er.. etc
And as we had a debate and pretty much estabilished the 5 handles better than the 3 anyway and is not that much bigger in dimension so the arguement to get a 3 over a 5 does not make sense based on the 3 having better handling.