Whats the fastest auto setting in a 530 D (231)
06-08-2006, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='294405' date='Jun 8 2006, 07:19 AM
The torque actually dies off quite quickly after just 3000rpm! Peak torque arrives at about 2500rpm and then starts to tail off and at 4000rpm you 'only' have about 375Nm... Peak power is produced at about 3400rpm so you might as well change gear about there and hit the wave of torque...
The above is for the original 530d. The 535d obviously has a far better spread - peak torque arrives a little earlier at about 2200rpm and keeps going strong to about 4000rpm - almost 500Nm. Peak power is at 4000rpm.
Therefore, I don't see the point of super-revving the 530d?
The above is for the original 530d. The 535d obviously has a far better spread - peak torque arrives a little earlier at about 2200rpm and keeps going strong to about 4000rpm - almost 500Nm. Peak power is at 4000rpm.
Therefore, I don't see the point of super-revving the 530d?
Yup, I notice if I "ride the wave" between 2500 - 3300 my progress is a lot quicker.
Also the car seems to run better in D as opposed to DS - DS seems to rev higher but with no real benefit, it kicks me off the torque wave!
Shi
06-08-2006, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='294383' date='Jun 8 2006, 04:43 AM
This is a question that is bugging me at the moment (although not keeping me awake at night or anything).
As I understand the optimal shift point should be where the HP (measured at the wheels) in the gear you are in would be less than that available in the next gear up OR where you would otherwise run out of rpm.
In most cars the effect of gearing is such that the HP in the next gear up is less anyway - so in most cars the optimal shift point is the redline.
In the 550 peak HP is at 6300rpm - close to the redline - so the DS pattern - which shifts close to (or at) the redline would seem optimal.
In the 530d peak torque is delivered at 2000rpm (or 1750 in the new one) and is flat until around 4500rpm when it dives off quickly well before the redline of 5500rpm.
Peak horsepower is generated at 4000rpm. Since HP always = torque at 5250rpm - I THINK that this explains why the peak HP of the diesel is comparatively low given the level of torque - because it is generated lower in the rev range.
So on engine HP alone - a redline shift in a 530d should be suboptimal - and an optimal shift would be at 4000rpm.
I have found some shift point calculators on the internet - but these require that you understand you gear ratios - and I have no idea what these are for my car. Without this - I cannot work out if the gearing is such that the HP at the wheels is always going to be lower in the next gear up anyway - or if the the optimal shift point is REALLY lower than the redline.
My gut feeling is that it IS lower than the redline and hence that the kickdown and DS modes of the step are not ideally set-up for the diesel cars - but I would really like to be able to know this for a fact.
In a petrol car with step (say the 550i) peak HP is very close to the redline
As I understand the optimal shift point should be where the HP (measured at the wheels) in the gear you are in would be less than that available in the next gear up OR where you would otherwise run out of rpm.
In most cars the effect of gearing is such that the HP in the next gear up is less anyway - so in most cars the optimal shift point is the redline.
In the 550 peak HP is at 6300rpm - close to the redline - so the DS pattern - which shifts close to (or at) the redline would seem optimal.
In the 530d peak torque is delivered at 2000rpm (or 1750 in the new one) and is flat until around 4500rpm when it dives off quickly well before the redline of 5500rpm.
Peak horsepower is generated at 4000rpm. Since HP always = torque at 5250rpm - I THINK that this explains why the peak HP of the diesel is comparatively low given the level of torque - because it is generated lower in the rev range.
So on engine HP alone - a redline shift in a 530d should be suboptimal - and an optimal shift would be at 4000rpm.
I have found some shift point calculators on the internet - but these require that you understand you gear ratios - and I have no idea what these are for my car. Without this - I cannot work out if the gearing is such that the HP at the wheels is always going to be lower in the next gear up anyway - or if the the optimal shift point is REALLY lower than the redline.
My gut feeling is that it IS lower than the redline and hence that the kickdown and DS modes of the step are not ideally set-up for the diesel cars - but I would really like to be able to know this for a fact.
In a petrol car with step (say the 550i) peak HP is very close to the redline
Check what I said out. And, let's explore how it might apply to your car--either here or one one of the other threads.
06-08-2006, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='294405' date='Jun 8 2006, 12:19 PM
The torque actually dies off quite quickly after just 3000rpm! Peak torque arrives at about 2500rpm and then starts to tail off and at 4000rpm you 'only' have about 375Nm... Peak power is produced at about 3400rpm so you might as well change gear about there and hit the wave of torque...
The above is for the original 530d. The 535d obviously has a far better spread - peak torque arrives a little earlier at about 2200rpm and keeps going strong to about 4000rpm - almost 500Nm. Peak power is at 4000rpm.
Therefore, I don't see the point of super-revving the 530d?
The above is for the original 530d. The 535d obviously has a far better spread - peak torque arrives a little earlier at about 2200rpm and keeps going strong to about 4000rpm - almost 500Nm. Peak power is at 4000rpm.
Therefore, I don't see the point of super-revving the 530d?
- according to BMW peak torque is achieved at 2000 in the old car and 1750 rpm in the new. Peak HP is 4000rpm in the new car (not sure about the old one)One thing that was wrong in my post was the redline - which I should have said was 4500rpm not 5500rpm.
Having said that it looks like we agree that their seems little point in reccing beyond 4000rpm and hence the step in DS mode is not well set up for the engine.
This is definately how it feels to me. I'm going to look at znods post as I think he is right that torque at the wheels is a good determinant of shift points (albeit that this is just another way of looking at HP) - I'm not sure I'll understand it though
Meanwhile - does anyone have the gear ratios for the 530d?
06-08-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='294683' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:31 PM
Meanwhile - does anyone have the gear ratios for the 530d?
Manual six-speed transmission with gear lever on floor, 5.08:1 first gear ratio, 2.804:1 second gear ratio, 1.784:1 third gear ratio, 1.26:1 fourth gear ratio, 1:1 fifth gear ratio, 0.835:1 sixth gear ratio and 4.61:1 reverse gear ratio ZF G weit
http://cars.rte.ie/newcars/index.cfm?fusea...pecs=SSCIRL2002
ABC
06-08-2006, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='294683' date='Jun 8 2006, 04:31 PM
My turn to be pedantic - according to BMW peak torque is achieved at 2000 in the old car and 1750 rpm in the new. Peak HP is 4000rpm in the new car (not sure about the old one)
One thing that was wrong in my post was the redline - which I should have said was 4500rpm not 5500rpm.
Having said that it looks like we agree that their seems little point in reccing beyond 4000rpm and hence the step in DS mode is not well set up for the engine.
This is definately how it feels to me. I'm going to look at znods post as I think he is right that torque at the wheels is a good determinant of shift points (albeit that this is just another way of looking at HP) - I'm not sure I'll understand it though
Meanwhile - does anyone have the gear ratios for the 530d?
- according to BMW peak torque is achieved at 2000 in the old car and 1750 rpm in the new. Peak HP is 4000rpm in the new car (not sure about the old one)One thing that was wrong in my post was the redline - which I should have said was 4500rpm not 5500rpm.
Having said that it looks like we agree that their seems little point in reccing beyond 4000rpm and hence the step in DS mode is not well set up for the engine.
This is definately how it feels to me. I'm going to look at znods post as I think he is right that torque at the wheels is a good determinant of shift points (albeit that this is just another way of looking at HP) - I'm not sure I'll understand it though
Meanwhile - does anyone have the gear ratios for the 530d?
Rear 4.61
1st 5.08
2nd 2.8
3rd 1.78
4th 1.26
5th 1.00
6th .84
Wow, that gearing is a major source of rear wheel torque, itself.
06-08-2006, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='294683' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:31 PM
My turn to be pedantic - according to BMW peak torque is achieved at 2000 in the old car and 1750 rpm in the new. Peak HP is 4000rpm in the new car (not sure about the old one)
- according to BMW peak torque is achieved at 2000 in the old car and 1750 rpm in the new. Peak HP is 4000rpm in the new car (not sure about the old one)
It was an actual dyno of the engine that I was referring to. (From the superchips site)
Offical figures say 500Nm from 2000 to 2750rpm. But I definitely notice an extra urgency at about 2500rpm myself...
06-09-2006, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='294943' date='Jun 9 2006, 02:25 AM
You believe BMW?
It was an actual dyno of the engine that I was referring to. (From the superchips site)
Offical figures say 500Nm from 2000 to 2750rpm. But I definitely notice an extra urgency at about 2500rpm myself...
It was an actual dyno of the engine that I was referring to. (From the superchips site)
Offical figures say 500Nm from 2000 to 2750rpm. But I definitely notice an extra urgency at about 2500rpm myself...
06-09-2006, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='294383' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:43 AM
In the 530d peak torque is delivered at 2000rpm (or 1750 in the new one) and is flat until around 4500rpm when it dives off quickly well before the redline of 5500rpm.
06-09-2006, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 700700' post='295066' date='Jun 9 2006, 02:34 PM
not quite
700700 - you are right
- I went wobbly in my first post about the redline on my car. The little white ticks start at 4600rpm when the engine is warmed up and the redline itself is at 5000rpm. I've been a bit of a hooligan today (up to 120mph) and in D the car shifts up at 4000rpm and in DS it hangs on up to the white ticks.
So in D it's changing up at the HP peak, but I still want to try to understand if this is actually better than DS.
It feels like D is fastest and that all you get in DS is extra noise
Anyway 400nm at 4000rpm isn't too shabby.
I still need to read znods post - but my brain is tired today