Water Damage to Engine With Ethanol Use
01-03-2007, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HughH' post='373402' date='Jan 4 2007, 03:44 AM
[snip] The problem is that ethanol is highly corrosive. That was the main problem with marine usage of ethanol. A lot of boats were made with fiberglass gas tanks and ethanol just ate the fiberglass [snip]
Since when is ethanol corrosive - particularly to fiberglass? When's the last time you have seen a vodka bottle being corroded?Ethanol may cause corrosion/premature wear problems because a) it dissolves fatty molecules (grease) that can protect or lubricate parts and b) because of its very high affinity for water, it's difficult to manufacture and transport water-free ethanol, and water may be corrosive for iron alloys, but ethanol itself does not corrode anything.
01-03-2007, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='373455' date='Jan 4 2007, 08:47 AM
Since when is ethanol corrosive - particularly to fiberglass? When's the last time you have seen a vodka bottle being corroded?Ethanol may cause corrosion/premature wear problems because a) it dissolves fatty molecules (grease) that can protect or lubricate parts and b) because of its very high affinity for water, it's difficult to manufacture and transport water-free ethanol, and water may be corrosive for iron alloys, but ethanol itself does not corrode anything.
They are particularly worrisome for people with older boats fitted with fibreglass fuel tanks. Introduce ethanol to them, and a chemical reaction produces a black muck. The muck and marine engines do not mix well.
ABC
01-04-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='373455' date='Jan 4 2007, 02:47 AM
Since when is ethanol corrosive - particularly to fiberglass? When's the last time you have seen a vodka bottle being corroded?Ethanol may cause corrosion/premature wear problems because a) it dissolves fatty molecules (grease) that can protect or lubricate parts and b) because of its very high affinity for water, it's difficult to manufacture and transport water-free ethanol, and water may be corrosive for iron alloys, but ethanol itself does not corrode anything.
"More smog, infinitely worse gas mileage, huge problems in distribution, and skyrocketing prices for gasoline. Maybe now that we're witnessing the third act in America's ethanol play, the upcoming epilogue will close this show forever. Even great advertising works only if the product does."
Ed Wallace is a journalist who's been in the auto industry for over 40 yrs. His article is ebtitled
Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts and can be found here:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/...htm?chan=search
01-04-2007, 09:39 AM
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Given these fossil-fuel inputs, the greenhouse-gas emissions associated with corn-based ethanol are only about 15 percent lower than those of traditional gasoline.
In contrast, ethanol derived from switch grass results in a 95 percent reduction in greenhouse gases compared to refining and burning gasoline, Fiedler says. The crop requires little to no fertilizer, and switch-grass plowing and management require only relatively low-intensity machinery.
In contrast, ethanol derived from switch grass results in a 95 percent reduction in greenhouse gases compared to refining and burning gasoline, Fiedler says. The crop requires little to no fertilizer, and switch-grass plowing and management require only relatively low-intensity machinery.
http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2004/...ittle-johanns/
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01-04-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nickolas_g' post='373318' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:58 PM
Ricracing,
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
cheers
vern
01-04-2007, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by vern' post='373687' date='Jan 4 2007, 03:55 PM
Why would you fill up with 10% when you can go down the block, so to speak, and fill up with 100% gas and get better MPG ?
cheers
vern
cheers
vern
01-04-2007, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Locksmythe' post='373694' date='Jan 4 2007, 04:26 PM
Is there a list of sources of 100% gas? Wasn't the point of this discussion that the govt requires the ethanol be added to all gas?
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vern
01-04-2007, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nickolas_g' post='373318' date='Jan 3 2007, 11:58 PM
Ricracing,
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
For the ignorant comment on the 120% energy needed for production of Ethanol the University of California Berkely performed a study that found that Ethanol is going to be "bad for the environment". You can check it out at
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...5_ethanol.shtml
By the way if you were not aware. University of California Berkeley is always had a extremely liberal political view at best. They are no friends of politicians or the middle east oil folks.
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
For the ignorant comment on the 120% energy needed for production of Ethanol the University of California Berkely performed a study that found that Ethanol is going to be "bad for the environment". You can check it out at
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...5_ethanol.shtml
By the way if you were not aware. University of California Berkeley is always had a extremely liberal political view at best. They are no friends of politicians or the middle east oil folks.
My 120% was only a ruff estimate and my chat english is not good enough for this conv.
Overhere a 5-6% ethanol/gas will be a goal (made of suger plants and imports from Brasil).
But this is a vast problem, ie. in South America they spoil a lot of rain forest and other food
fields to only to make some ethanol with ecologically catastrophical outlets.
I was not aware that the University of California, Berkeley was into this, I really hope that you
guys can give some good ideas for this huge, global problem!
Start overthere with some ideas - maybe China and India will follow...
Kind regards,
Riku
01-04-2007, 05:43 PM
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The real problem occurs when greedy gas station owners add water to their gas tanks to increase profits. They probably know how much they can add and still be fully absorbed.
01-04-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pennetta' post='373772' date='Jan 5 2007, 02:43 AM
The real problem occurs when greedy gas station owners add water to their gas tanks to increase profits. They probably know how much they can add and still be fully absorbed.
ABC