US diesel availability?
12-30-2007, 01:30 PM
#31
Members
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by steve_gus' post='511753' date='Dec 30 2007, 12:30 AM
I am based in the UK and ive had my car for almost 13 months and 32k miles. Its a 520d.
I put up a poll on here almost a year ago, asking what E60 people had in the UK. It came out that 80% of UK E60 buyers opt for the diesel. Thats gotta say something.
Why should a diesel be less reliable than a petrol? A diesel revs lower, so less bore wear, and the fuel is an oil, not a solvent, so again, less wear.
On economy, I do 100 miles a day, 50 miles each way to work - average speed of nearly 50 mph on mixed country and motorway/freeway style roads. I get a GENUINE 46mpg in the summer - but it drops to around 42 in the winter. (Genuine, cos i have recalibrated my fuel computer as informed on this site - if its not, it reads 10% optimistic). For USA readers, reduce those figures by approx 10% as the UK gallon is bigger.
The purchase price of the 520d is the lowest in the range for UK, there is no 'premium' for it. I suspect thou, that in the large engine obsessed USA you wont get this motor and will pay higher prices for the 330 or 335 models. To put it in context, the cost of a 520d in the UK is only about 5k dollars shy of a 550se! (figures for 12 months back)
steve
I put up a poll on here almost a year ago, asking what E60 people had in the UK. It came out that 80% of UK E60 buyers opt for the diesel. Thats gotta say something.
Why should a diesel be less reliable than a petrol? A diesel revs lower, so less bore wear, and the fuel is an oil, not a solvent, so again, less wear.
On economy, I do 100 miles a day, 50 miles each way to work - average speed of nearly 50 mph on mixed country and motorway/freeway style roads. I get a GENUINE 46mpg in the summer - but it drops to around 42 in the winter. (Genuine, cos i have recalibrated my fuel computer as informed on this site - if its not, it reads 10% optimistic). For USA readers, reduce those figures by approx 10% as the UK gallon is bigger.
The purchase price of the 520d is the lowest in the range for UK, there is no 'premium' for it. I suspect thou, that in the large engine obsessed USA you wont get this motor and will pay higher prices for the 330 or 335 models. To put it in context, the cost of a 520d in the UK is only about 5k dollars shy of a 550se! (figures for 12 months back)
steve
It's worth putting some context around some of Steve's points.
The reason that most UK E60 drivers moved over to diesel (it's in fact well over 90%) is due to the UK company car tax regime which favoured diesel variants. Personal taxation of business provided cars is based on a % charge determined by the vehicles CO2 emissions (due to environmental concerns that aren't yet appreciated in the US - Al Gore aside!). As diesel E60's had much lower CO2 emissions than their petrol counterparts, the individual tax paid was much less.
This has now changed with the LCI models, as the lower CO2 rates mean that the diesel 6 cylinder cars now cost more to run in tax than their petrol equivalents. The 520d (unlikely to ever be available in US) has phenomenally low emissions and great MPG and provides a great entry model (albeit 4 cylinder) for those unable to stretch to a 6 cylinder model. It is the cheapest to buy and run (business or private) and will retain a higher % of it's value at resale than any other model in the range.
In spite of my tongue in cheek comments about the US lack of environmental concerns (although US readers should be aware that they are cited in Europe as the worlds biggest polluters!), if you live in the USA where fuel is ludicroulsy cheap (even after the recent increases), then I can't see why many people would opt for diesels. The torque is great but they are less refined (see my test drive report on the 525i where I compare it to the 530d).
The final point about comparative pricing is quite true. When you compare identical models and spec (and allowing for current exchange rates), E60's in the US are the equivalent of only two-thirds of the price we pay in the UK and sometimes almost half the price. Very few people in the UK would earn enough to run a 550i but in the US it is clearly more accessible to a much wider market.
The big decider would be if US fuel costs ever matched European (especially UK) prices, again unlikely as the leader of any country with oil supplies would suddenly be deemed to be in league with Al Qaeda and an invasion would rebalance the supply and demand situation! (I do hope that US readers get the British ironic humour!). If US pump prices reached our levels at $10US a gallon (that's right, ten US dollars a gallon is what we pay now), then diesels with their improved MPG would become as fashionable in the US as they have now become over here!
12-30-2007, 02:18 PM
#32
Contributors
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Posts: 4,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
Model Year: 2008
Originally Posted by UK 5 Series' post='512009' date='Dec 30 2007, 02:30 PM
It's worth putting some context around some of Steve's points.
The reason that most UK E60 drivers moved over to diesel (it's in fact well over 90%) is due to the UK company car tax regime which favoured diesel variants. Personal taxation of business provided cars is based on a % charge determined by the vehicles CO2 emissions (due to environmental concerns that aren't yet appreciated in the US - Al Gore aside!). As diesel E60's had much lower CO2 emissions than their petrol counterparts, the individual tax paid was much less.
This has now changed with the LCI models, as the lower CO2 rates mean that the diesel 6 cylinder cars now cost more to run in tax than their petrol equivalents. The 520d (unlikely to ever be available in US) has phenomenally low emissions and great MPG and provides a great entry model (albeit 4 cylinder) for those unable to stretch to a 6 cylinder model. It is the cheapest to buy and run (business or private) and will retain a higher % of it's value at resale than any other model in the range.
In spite of my tongue in cheek comments about the US lack of environmental concerns (although US readers should be aware that they are cited in Europe as the worlds biggest polluters!), if you live in the USA where fuel is ludicroulsy cheap (even after the recent increases), then I can't see why many people would opt for diesels. The torque is great but they are less refined (see my test drive report on the 525i where I compare it to the 530d).
The final point about comparative pricing is quite true. When you compare identical models and spec (and allowing for current exchange rates), E60's in the US are the equivalent of only two-thirds of the price we pay in the UK and sometimes almost half the price. Very few people in the UK would earn enough to run a 550i but in the US it is clearly more accessible to a much wider market.
The big decider would be if US fuel costs ever matched European (especially UK) prices, again unlikely as the leader of any country with oil supplies would suddenly be deemed to be in league with Al Qaeda and an invasion would rebalance the supply and demand situation! (I do hope that US readers get the British ironic humour!). If US pump prices reached our levels at $10US a gallon (that's right, ten US dollars a gallon is what we pay now), then diesels with their improved MPG would become as fashionable in the US as they have now become over here!
The reason that most UK E60 drivers moved over to diesel (it's in fact well over 90%) is due to the UK company car tax regime which favoured diesel variants. Personal taxation of business provided cars is based on a % charge determined by the vehicles CO2 emissions (due to environmental concerns that aren't yet appreciated in the US - Al Gore aside!). As diesel E60's had much lower CO2 emissions than their petrol counterparts, the individual tax paid was much less.
This has now changed with the LCI models, as the lower CO2 rates mean that the diesel 6 cylinder cars now cost more to run in tax than their petrol equivalents. The 520d (unlikely to ever be available in US) has phenomenally low emissions and great MPG and provides a great entry model (albeit 4 cylinder) for those unable to stretch to a 6 cylinder model. It is the cheapest to buy and run (business or private) and will retain a higher % of it's value at resale than any other model in the range.
In spite of my tongue in cheek comments about the US lack of environmental concerns (although US readers should be aware that they are cited in Europe as the worlds biggest polluters!), if you live in the USA where fuel is ludicroulsy cheap (even after the recent increases), then I can't see why many people would opt for diesels. The torque is great but they are less refined (see my test drive report on the 525i where I compare it to the 530d).
The final point about comparative pricing is quite true. When you compare identical models and spec (and allowing for current exchange rates), E60's in the US are the equivalent of only two-thirds of the price we pay in the UK and sometimes almost half the price. Very few people in the UK would earn enough to run a 550i but in the US it is clearly more accessible to a much wider market.
The big decider would be if US fuel costs ever matched European (especially UK) prices, again unlikely as the leader of any country with oil supplies would suddenly be deemed to be in league with Al Qaeda and an invasion would rebalance the supply and demand situation! (I do hope that US readers get the British ironic humour!). If US pump prices reached our levels at $10US a gallon (that's right, ten US dollars a gallon is what we pay now), then diesels with their improved MPG would become as fashionable in the US as they have now become over here!
12-31-2007, 12:01 AM
#33
Contributors
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 2,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by swajames' post='512014' date='Dec 30 2007, 11:18 PM
I agree with almost all of your points, but do want to note that gasses other than C02 are also an environmental concern and the current BMW diesel line up can't pass the emissions tests here in California or the few other states that follow CARB (which also happen to be some of the biggest BMW markets). The current diesels emit too much NOx, which is why the US has had to wait for BMW to come up with their latest emissions control systems. I don't think the EU rules are actually as tight as those CARB mandates for California.
12-31-2007, 03:50 AM
#34
Members
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by swajames' post='512014' date='Dec 30 2007, 11:18 PM
I agree with almost all of your points, but do want to note that gasses other than C02 are also an environmental concern and the current BMW diesel line up can't pass the emissions tests here in California or the few other states that follow CARB (which also happen to be some of the biggest BMW markets). The current diesels emit too much NOx, which is why the US has had to wait for BMW to come up with their latest emissions control systems. I don't think the EU rules are actually as tight as those CARB mandates for California.
12-31-2007, 07:28 AM
#35
Contributors
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 2,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by UK 5 Series' post='512173' date='Dec 31 2007, 12:50 PM
That's interesting and I believe is the same reason why diesels are subject to an additional 3% tax in the UK over a petrol car with identical CO2 emissions.
Company Car Tax is a little more complicated. Non Euro-IV Diesels suffer 3% surcharge. Euro-IV Diesels registered before 1/1/2006 escape the suplement. So, Diesel suffers the 3% surcharge right now...
I would seriously consider a 525i/530i myself now. Well that was before the wife decided on a 3rd child and I had to get a MPV...
(Shame the V-series wasn't ready...)
01-02-2008, 06:35 AM
#36
Contributors
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's an update on AutoSpies.
BMW looks to debut the X5 and 335 with diesels at the Detroit Auto Show ... with U.S. availability in late 2008.
No E60 diesel yet. :thumbsdown:
UPDATE: Confirmed in BMW press release ... attached.
BMW looks to debut the X5 and 335 with diesels at the Detroit Auto Show ... with U.S. availability in late 2008.
No E60 diesel yet. :thumbsdown:
UPDATE: Confirmed in BMW press release ... attached.
01-02-2008, 05:35 PM
#37
Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2008 535xi
Platinum bronze metallic, automatic, cold weather package, fold down rear seats, iPod adapter
Originally Posted by tachyon' post='512768' date='Jan 2 2008, 07:35 AM
Here's an update on AutoSpies.
BMW looks to debut the X5 and 335 with diesels at the Detroit Auto Show ... with U.S. availability in late 2008.
No E60 diesel yet. :thumbsdown:
UPDATE: Confirmed in BMW press release ... attached.
BMW looks to debut the X5 and 335 with diesels at the Detroit Auto Show ... with U.S. availability in late 2008.
No E60 diesel yet. :thumbsdown:
UPDATE: Confirmed in BMW press release ... attached.
01-02-2008, 05:46 PM
#38
Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 17,310
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My Ride: G30 M550i
Model Year: 2018
Here's a link to a diesel thread posted a short while ago on our forums including BMW's press release, some videos, and some pictures:
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=48957
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=48957
03-11-2008, 07:31 PM
#39
Contributors
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Motor Trend (April 2008 issue) reports:
In spite of offering an X6 hybrid, BMW will add modern diesels across more vehicles for the U.S. market - and likely at a faster rate. The X5 will be the first to get BMW's twin-turbo I-6 diesel, quickly followed by the 3 Series. The 335d will be available as a sedan and wagon and goes on sale this year. BMW will also offer the I-6 diesel in the 5 Series about a year from now. If the company is successful in moving a decent percentage of turbodiesels, BMW may launch the next-generation 7 Series here with an optional diesel V-8.
In spite of offering an X6 hybrid, BMW will add modern diesels across more vehicles for the U.S. market - and likely at a faster rate. The X5 will be the first to get BMW's twin-turbo I-6 diesel, quickly followed by the 3 Series. The 335d will be available as a sedan and wagon and goes on sale this year. BMW will also offer the I-6 diesel in the 5 Series about a year from now. If the company is successful in moving a decent percentage of turbodiesels, BMW may launch the next-generation 7 Series here with an optional diesel V-8.
03-12-2008, 08:37 AM
#40
Contributors
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 525d M Sport in Carbon Black
Nearly 1 year of ownership 525d M Sport it does exactly what it's specced to do, it's personal choice and circumstance when it comes to fuel. I think for my next car though I'll switch back to petrol, the Government in the UK has hiked Diesel nearing the point where any advantage in cost is slowly diminishing (my opinion).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Vman33
Complete Car Sales
5
03-14-2022 04:43 AM
umnitza
Vendor Classifieds
1
09-02-2015 11:28 AM