UK spec E60 530i with LPG conversion - shock...horror!!!
08-08-2008, 08:18 AM
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Hey All,
This post is for all, but may be more useful to members this side of the pond - but everyone's welcome to view and comment!
May I introduce you to Leyla, my lovely 530i.
And yes, I have adopted the "fuel of Satan" and gone for an LPG conversion (Liquified Petroleum Gas).
I'll start with some pics, then do an FAQ
Yes, I'll be the first to admit, it wasn't my finest moment with a digital camera...but I have a real small yard, and it's impossible to get some decent pics, but you get the idea.
Ok, here's what the LPG filler looks like from a distance:
And close up:
And open:
When fitted, it's black plastic. The amount of times I would be told "nice motor mate..shame about thet plastic thing..." so I took it off and got it painted. The LPG fitters didn't seem to understand why I was cursing them, but they were good enough to give me a spare filler, which I got painted off the vehicle, and then removed and fitted the painted one.
Here is the rhomboid tank in the spare wheel well. It's supposed to be a 70 litre tank, with 63 useable, but I have never been able to get more than 50 litres of fuel in from empty - something to do with a safety cut off:
Of course you could have a cylinder tank and keep the spare, but that would eat up half your boot, and not leave a huge empty space like this, for you to fill up with other crap:
This is a shot of the mods made to the underside of the wheel well, with cabling running to the engine bay:
Here are some shots of the components fitted in the engine bay:
Here's the injectors going into the manifold, don't mind the dirt, for some weird reason I always get that area full of dirt:
Here's a shot of the switch in the cabin with the fuel 'gauge':
I call it a gauge very loosely - I would draw the analogy of the old cistern type of toilets - it's like a ball on a stick in a bowl of water - basically, nowhere near as accurate as your factory fuel gauge - so you are better off monitoring the mileage, than relying on the gauge. The switch is set to always on, and will go over to petrol automatically if you run out.
Ok, so lets talk about why I converted?
Petrol = ?1.20 per litre
LPG = ?0.60 per litre
Err....need I say any more?
Actually, i have a wholesaler near me, and I get it from them at ?0.48p per litre!
Ok, I'll try and answer some common q's:
1 ?does it affect the performance?
Admittedly, I only had Leyla for 3 weeks before I converted her, but I?m a pretty well tuned driver, had all sorts of performance motors, and I would say, no, not at all.
2 ? Does it jump to petrol when you floor it?
The older systems used to do this, but any system you fit on an E60 will be a premium system, and so, this doesn?t happen. It only happens, when you are already quite low on LPG.
3 ? How economical is it?
Ok, well, you get about 20% less ?bang? with LPG than you do with unleaded. Not sure how helpful this is, but if I fill up the tank entirely, 50 litres, at my wholesaler, that comes in at ?24. I will get around 200 miles out of that, if I drove ?sensibly?. About 150 if I drive like a hooligan. My cars an auto, some people seem unimpressed by these calculations, but I figure they haven?t had to put unleaded in one of these things ? in my view, ?12 at current prices to get 100 miles out of a 3.0i auto is great
4 ? Do you have problems filling up?
In short, not really. You can download LPG stations as POI?s onto your satnav!! And there is a hard copy of a UK map that shows all LPG filling stations. More and more Morrison?s, BP?s and Shell are installing these things. I live in the city, and am OK. Maybe a problem for others, sometimes I panic a little on the highway, but you just have to plan ahead and map the stations ? a minor inconvenience.
5 ? Does the system need servicing?
Yes, at approx every 20,000 miles. I was quoted ?100 for full service by my installer
6 ? What about your insurance company?
I just sent them my approved fitters certificate, and they said fine.
7 ? Will it affect my warranty?
Good question. I don?t know. Dealers are always going to be arsey about stuff like this. Nightmare scenario is that LPG fitter and dealer both blame each other for a fault. My advice, is talk to your dealer before you convert, and get it in writing. My car is 2003 so obviously out of warranty ? I bought a 3rd party warranty and ensured it said on the document that the car was LPG converted.
8 ? Do you get cheaper road tax?
Yea rite!!!! You get a measly ?15 off the usual rate if you change your regitration doc to read ?duel fuel? ? personally, cant be bothered for ?15. On an other note, due to the size of my engine, I am being hammered on the road tax next year, which kind of takes the shine of things a little
9 ? Will LPG go up in price?
LPG will track fuel price increases. There has been an agreement in place with the Govt that the price rises will be proportional. The information is a bit sketchy, but its safe to assume, that LPG will always be around half the cost of unleaded, at least until around 2011 when it will be reviewed.
10 ? Does it still use petrol?
Yes, the car starts on petrol and remains on petrol till the components are ready to switch ? usually about 1-2 miles form cold, a little less when warm. And of course, it will revert to unleaded if you run out of LPG. You use more unleaded when doing lots of short start stop journeys. Put it this way, I top up on unleaded so infrequently, I always forget which side the filler is on, and I have to lubricate the hinge on the flap to stop it seizing from lack of use!!
11 ? Have I had any problems?
In short, yes, but nothing that would stop me from encouraging others to convert. The manual with my fitting says that the engine management light may come on in first 1,000 miles, and it isn?t a problem. I took the car in, and they adjusted the mixture. Basically, the car is saying ?whoa?.I?m running lean? but it?s not, it?s getting fuel, it?s getting LPG. So anyway, after the adjustment, I had the same thing happen a few weeks down the line. Went in, and they adjusted the flow. It happened a 3rd time, and I went in and expressed my displeasure. The guys were good about it, and explained that some cars need more adjustments than others. They did some more advanced microtuning, and left me with the promise, that if the management light came on again, they would replace the system for a different version.
The light does not affect your car, but its annoying. At this moment in time, im ok about it. My advice would be, don?t let the thought of problems put you off, because I haven?t had anything that has immobilised me, its just inconvenient going back to the workshop. and I have only had it done about 3 months. I would suggets that you research the best system for your car - i did, and I'm grateful Idid - as there are many sharks out there willing to sell you a system that is not appropriate for a premium motor.
If you are considering this, then make sure you find someone that is reasonably local, in case you do have to have more regular contact than you desire.
My system is an AG Centrum and comes with 1 year labour and 2 year parts guarantee. I paid ?1600 after haggling, but expect to pay up to ?2,500 for a system suitable for the E60.
Finally, some people argue it?s a false economy, because you pay that much up in front ? my response is, that if you do the miles, like I do, you come out quits at end of year one. You start gaining in year 2. In year 3, you start saving enough money for your next conversion.
All in all, I?m pleased with the result. The main disadvantage is the limited range on the tank, and you are forever filing up.
But of course, the main advantage is that warm feeling inside, when im standing next to the guy in the station who pays ?70 for his tank of fuel, and I pay ?24. Don?t underestimate this ? if you fill up as often as I do, it makes a huge mental difference and worth the inconveniences mentioned above.
I hope this has been of some use to anyone, let me know any comments or q?s you may have.
Peace.
Kash.
This post is for all, but may be more useful to members this side of the pond - but everyone's welcome to view and comment!
May I introduce you to Leyla, my lovely 530i.
And yes, I have adopted the "fuel of Satan" and gone for an LPG conversion (Liquified Petroleum Gas).
I'll start with some pics, then do an FAQ
Yes, I'll be the first to admit, it wasn't my finest moment with a digital camera...but I have a real small yard, and it's impossible to get some decent pics, but you get the idea.
Ok, here's what the LPG filler looks like from a distance:
And close up:
And open:
When fitted, it's black plastic. The amount of times I would be told "nice motor mate..shame about thet plastic thing..." so I took it off and got it painted. The LPG fitters didn't seem to understand why I was cursing them, but they were good enough to give me a spare filler, which I got painted off the vehicle, and then removed and fitted the painted one.
Here is the rhomboid tank in the spare wheel well. It's supposed to be a 70 litre tank, with 63 useable, but I have never been able to get more than 50 litres of fuel in from empty - something to do with a safety cut off:
Of course you could have a cylinder tank and keep the spare, but that would eat up half your boot, and not leave a huge empty space like this, for you to fill up with other crap:
This is a shot of the mods made to the underside of the wheel well, with cabling running to the engine bay:
Here are some shots of the components fitted in the engine bay:
Here's the injectors going into the manifold, don't mind the dirt, for some weird reason I always get that area full of dirt:
Here's a shot of the switch in the cabin with the fuel 'gauge':
I call it a gauge very loosely - I would draw the analogy of the old cistern type of toilets - it's like a ball on a stick in a bowl of water - basically, nowhere near as accurate as your factory fuel gauge - so you are better off monitoring the mileage, than relying on the gauge. The switch is set to always on, and will go over to petrol automatically if you run out.
Ok, so lets talk about why I converted?
Petrol = ?1.20 per litre
LPG = ?0.60 per litre
Err....need I say any more?
Actually, i have a wholesaler near me, and I get it from them at ?0.48p per litre!
Ok, I'll try and answer some common q's:
1 ?does it affect the performance?
Admittedly, I only had Leyla for 3 weeks before I converted her, but I?m a pretty well tuned driver, had all sorts of performance motors, and I would say, no, not at all.
2 ? Does it jump to petrol when you floor it?
The older systems used to do this, but any system you fit on an E60 will be a premium system, and so, this doesn?t happen. It only happens, when you are already quite low on LPG.
3 ? How economical is it?
Ok, well, you get about 20% less ?bang? with LPG than you do with unleaded. Not sure how helpful this is, but if I fill up the tank entirely, 50 litres, at my wholesaler, that comes in at ?24. I will get around 200 miles out of that, if I drove ?sensibly?. About 150 if I drive like a hooligan. My cars an auto, some people seem unimpressed by these calculations, but I figure they haven?t had to put unleaded in one of these things ? in my view, ?12 at current prices to get 100 miles out of a 3.0i auto is great
4 ? Do you have problems filling up?
In short, not really. You can download LPG stations as POI?s onto your satnav!! And there is a hard copy of a UK map that shows all LPG filling stations. More and more Morrison?s, BP?s and Shell are installing these things. I live in the city, and am OK. Maybe a problem for others, sometimes I panic a little on the highway, but you just have to plan ahead and map the stations ? a minor inconvenience.
5 ? Does the system need servicing?
Yes, at approx every 20,000 miles. I was quoted ?100 for full service by my installer
6 ? What about your insurance company?
I just sent them my approved fitters certificate, and they said fine.
7 ? Will it affect my warranty?
Good question. I don?t know. Dealers are always going to be arsey about stuff like this. Nightmare scenario is that LPG fitter and dealer both blame each other for a fault. My advice, is talk to your dealer before you convert, and get it in writing. My car is 2003 so obviously out of warranty ? I bought a 3rd party warranty and ensured it said on the document that the car was LPG converted.
8 ? Do you get cheaper road tax?
Yea rite!!!! You get a measly ?15 off the usual rate if you change your regitration doc to read ?duel fuel? ? personally, cant be bothered for ?15. On an other note, due to the size of my engine, I am being hammered on the road tax next year, which kind of takes the shine of things a little
9 ? Will LPG go up in price?
LPG will track fuel price increases. There has been an agreement in place with the Govt that the price rises will be proportional. The information is a bit sketchy, but its safe to assume, that LPG will always be around half the cost of unleaded, at least until around 2011 when it will be reviewed.
10 ? Does it still use petrol?
Yes, the car starts on petrol and remains on petrol till the components are ready to switch ? usually about 1-2 miles form cold, a little less when warm. And of course, it will revert to unleaded if you run out of LPG. You use more unleaded when doing lots of short start stop journeys. Put it this way, I top up on unleaded so infrequently, I always forget which side the filler is on, and I have to lubricate the hinge on the flap to stop it seizing from lack of use!!
11 ? Have I had any problems?
In short, yes, but nothing that would stop me from encouraging others to convert. The manual with my fitting says that the engine management light may come on in first 1,000 miles, and it isn?t a problem. I took the car in, and they adjusted the mixture. Basically, the car is saying ?whoa?.I?m running lean? but it?s not, it?s getting fuel, it?s getting LPG. So anyway, after the adjustment, I had the same thing happen a few weeks down the line. Went in, and they adjusted the flow. It happened a 3rd time, and I went in and expressed my displeasure. The guys were good about it, and explained that some cars need more adjustments than others. They did some more advanced microtuning, and left me with the promise, that if the management light came on again, they would replace the system for a different version.
The light does not affect your car, but its annoying. At this moment in time, im ok about it. My advice would be, don?t let the thought of problems put you off, because I haven?t had anything that has immobilised me, its just inconvenient going back to the workshop. and I have only had it done about 3 months. I would suggets that you research the best system for your car - i did, and I'm grateful Idid - as there are many sharks out there willing to sell you a system that is not appropriate for a premium motor.
If you are considering this, then make sure you find someone that is reasonably local, in case you do have to have more regular contact than you desire.
My system is an AG Centrum and comes with 1 year labour and 2 year parts guarantee. I paid ?1600 after haggling, but expect to pay up to ?2,500 for a system suitable for the E60.
Finally, some people argue it?s a false economy, because you pay that much up in front ? my response is, that if you do the miles, like I do, you come out quits at end of year one. You start gaining in year 2. In year 3, you start saving enough money for your next conversion.
All in all, I?m pleased with the result. The main disadvantage is the limited range on the tank, and you are forever filing up.
But of course, the main advantage is that warm feeling inside, when im standing next to the guy in the station who pays ?70 for his tank of fuel, and I pay ?24. Don?t underestimate this ? if you fill up as often as I do, it makes a huge mental difference and worth the inconveniences mentioned above.
I hope this has been of some use to anyone, let me know any comments or q?s you may have.
Peace.
Kash.
08-08-2008, 10:05 AM
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My Ride: 2005 BMW 545i, Titanium Silver. Bridgestone 760s on Weds Bavaria II 18" wheels, standard sport pack size. Sport, AT. Latest job - NGK Iridium IX plugs installed.
Very interesting..How much did you pay for the conversion, if you don't mind?
08-08-2008, 10:24 AM
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My Ride: 2008 BMW 550i Sport
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Recently gone, but never forgotten:
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2002 Chrysler 300M Special
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Don't you guys get subsidized by the government for those conversions?
LJTX545I, he said he paid 1600#. (Don't have that weird squiggly thing on my keyboard.)
LJTX545I, he said he paid 1600#. (Don't have that weird squiggly thing on my keyboard.)
08-08-2008, 10:42 AM
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Nice, 
. Thanx for sharing those and providing some info...very interesting 
. Thanx for sharing those and providing some info...very interesting
08-08-2008, 11:17 AM
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Hi
That looks so much like the road I once resided in B45 ?
That looks so much like the road I once resided in B45 ?
08-08-2008, 12:25 PM
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Hey,
GT premi - nah mate, that used to happen way back when LPG first came about, but as ever, when people started taking it up, subsidisation ceased
DarrenP - tr?s ?troitement!
Gudge - yep, they're 20's. Tyre weld - can of emergency foam filler in the boot is the only option...
Peace
GT premi - nah mate, that used to happen way back when LPG first came about, but as ever, when people started taking it up, subsidisation ceased
DarrenP - tr?s ?troitement!
Gudge - yep, they're 20's. Tyre weld - can of emergency foam filler in the boot is the only option...
Peace
