swajames

I don't think so. That particular race was won off the line - the 545 was so much quicker off the line, and it was decisively ahead by the first corner. It was never going to give up that lead. Both cars were auto, so driver skill did not play any meaningful role in that component. Whether you're Clarkson or the Stig, you can still mash the gas pedal into the wilton just as effectively, and for this race, that's all it took to give the 545 the advantage it needed.

Dr Dave

thats compleatly not true, any race is more than 50% down to the driver (even a straight line drag) and clarkson even caught him up on the second bend and almost took him (never giving up the lead?? )
and you cant say that diesels only have the turbos going for them...
whatabout there strength (steel cranks/block)
what about longevity?
and diesels are far less polouting to the enviroment (nothing to do with US emissions)
and of course theres economy

you might not like it...but the tides chainging (yippie)

DD_545i

Huh? With the ability to choose the gear, how is driver skill not meaningful? There's no way they were driving round in "D"

swajames

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the *other* skills required to get these cars off the line other put the auto box in DS, manually select first, brake torque and mash the pedal into the carpet? That race was won off the line, and driver skill really didn't come into it.

swajames

It is completely true. This discussion is focused on performance. Try taking the turbos off your engine, and see how you make out against a normally aspirated three liter gasoline engine. A normally aspirated diesel engine isn't going to win you any races... The tide has indeed changed, but it changed once BMW started putting turbos on its gasoline engines. The N54 turbo pulls hard to its 7000 RPM redline, whereas the diesel runs out of breath before its 5000 RPM redline.

Diesels are not far less polluting, hence their inability to pass CARB, which is at least as tough as any EU standard. Simple fact is that EU rules focus on C02 but allowed higher levels of other pollutants such as NOx. CARB requires low emissions for all greenhouse gases. Which NOx indeed is.

DD_545i

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the *other* skills required to get these cars off the line other put the auto box in DS, manually select first, brake torque and mash the pedal into the carpet? That race was won off the line, and driver skill really didn't come into it.
[/quote]
Look again. I never said anything about off the line.

Dr Dave

the race was not won off the line...the race was won by the 545 at the end (when every race is won )
even a straight line drag involves driver reaction, but there race involved
firstly the drivers reaction in pulling away from the start.
then the drivers perception of when to brake
then the drivers (again) cornering ability and "racing line"
then the ability of the driver to reaply the gas pedal
shall i go on?

any race is mostly down to the driver and anybody who cant comprehend that is a novice driver.
a huge example of this is sabine schmidt of nurburg fame who can lap the ring in a transit van faster than you could in your porsche (i reacon) if thats not down to driver skill then .............

swajames

My mistake. I erroneously gave you credit for the ability to think laterally as well as literally.

Of course driver skill comes in to a race. My point was the thing that gave the 545 its unassailable lead here was the advantage it took off the line, and with two automatic transmissions in play the level of driver skill needed for that piece of the race was indeed negligible.

swajames

You responded to my post, where I was specifically talking about the advantage the 545 had from the start and into the first corner. It was indeed the quicker acceleration from a standing start that got the 545 into that position.

Dr Dave

appology accepted