edl

Newbie post, so pls bear with me.

I currently drive an '04 530i, which i got into such that i can get out of it without downside - it has a 6 speed manual transmission - problem free (to date - knock on trim) - interested in trading up to 545i with sports package and am debating whether to stick with the manual tranny or the smg - thoughts as follows:

Manual: works beautifully in the 530i; devil i know; bias toward thinking i have more control over the performance (admit i have never really used smg - so ignorance of the other is clearly a factor) - as well as bias toward thinking this is the "pure" performance mode; technology tried and true (??)

SMG: BMW engineers think it is the best thing since sliced bread and only begrudgingly make manual transmissions because we yankees seem to demand it (e.g., upcoming M5 and M6); dozens of F1 racecar drivers can't be wrong; on paper it is clear that if it works as promised, it is much quicker shifting - BUT, read about alot of problems on this site, such as slamming, tapping valves, etc. (but don't know if those are related to smg, auto, manual or all three - sperate post on this in the slamming thread) - this seems to relate to the technology; do you lose touch with the engine? how can you "feather" the clutch (i.e., engage it gradually, or quickly) with no manually manipulatable (real word?) clutch? if this is the way of the future, better to be ahead of the curve? better resale value?

Would greatly appreciate views from people who have a 545 with sports packace and a stick or smg (or have had experience with both) - particularly with respect to the performance related questions above!!

thanks,
edl

thanks,
sl

EBMCS03

Problems persists with all transmissions mainly Steptronic and SMG for the slaming... MORE so with Steptronic than SMG. I was a rare case with the slamming but its been fixed now with 16.x tapping valves is not transmission dependant.

Lose touch with the engine? What do you mean? With SMG? no i wouldnt say that... I think its great... you have just as much control of the car as you do with a manual... and I know I can drive the car better with SMG than manual.

Ummm feathering the clutch... under which condition would you want to do that? give an example? You mean drag racing? so u can moderate the wheel spin? Theres lauch assist for that... or if you mean for snow conditions the car will still feather the clutch as necessary... even in regular conditions like uphill and you want to feather the cluch to keep the car from rolling back the car will feather the clutch... (*dont do that by the way*)

Better resale value? ummm in the long run dont know... as for "now" now now... it is... cuz theres less SMGs out there.. BUT once bmw comes out with ZSG dual clutch system like Audi's DSG who knows what'll happen with resale... your call.

Rudy

Welcome edl!

Your question is a good one and is asked quite often around here. If you haven't done so already, read the SMG FAQ thread (found here) and be sure to read the threads that the FAQ links to.

You'll find a ton of opinions and information to help you decide what to get.

As far as your specific questions, I can speak from my experiences driving an SMG 545i (sport pkg) for well over a year -- just get one! I've had no problems, no slamming, etc. It doesn't shift as fast as an F1 car (or an M3/M5) but you will certainly adjust to it and will be able to feel "in control" after your adjustment period. Before this SMG car, I drove manuals for over 20 years, including two E39 540i six-speed cars but I can honestly say that I feel more in control now with the SMG than I did with the traditional manual. (Probably the only time I felt less control is when I was trying to get rolling on a snow-covered hill from a standstill.)

As most people here know, I strongly believe that SMG is the way of the future....

juan2mini

edl:
I have a 545i w/sport package and a 6-speed manual. Like many of our forum members w/SMG that wouldn't change their tranny choice, neither would I. I don't care if my car could shift quicker with SMG, my car shift plenty quick. I am also concerned about the reliability of the transmission. I am convinced that a manual will have a longer life than an auto or SMG - time will tell. I am getting close to two years and 20,000 miles, I would not change my transmission choice.

MALEKMAN

Real men drive cars with manual transmission. The added dexterity gained by constantly shifting gears comes in handy in variety of other activities, unrelated to driving but equally as stimulating.

pennetta

I have a 545 SMG for 15 months. I have had many traditionally sticks through the years and currently also have a Kawasaki ZX1000R 6spd, so I have nothing against them. I am very happy with the SMG, never had any problems and would order it again. (I hope they do not adopt the Audi system) I think the SMG will be more durable over the log run, there is less stress on the clutch and gears as each shift is perfect and the engine revs match gear and road speed so again less stress.
There have been many years of electro/hydraulic systems on cars (power steering, power brakes) so I think that aspect of the SMG will also be durable.

EBMCS03

Humm how is the Audi DSG or BMW ZSG less durable than SMG? I dont know how the dual clutch system works but sounds like it'll be more reliable to me since it preps the next gear and then it'll slip into gear smoothly... I dunno less relible since its more complicated?

edl

Many thanks for the great responses - please keep them coming - EBMCSO3 - when i say feathering, i guess i mean deciding at what rpm the clutch engages the next gear - so, if i want a bit more speed off the line, i rev higher and as i engage first - when i downshift for speed, i would want higher revs - for braking, no additional revs - how does smg accomodate this (i am not suggesting it doesn't - just don't have familiarity with the system) - as for losing touch with the car, what i mean is that with a manual, i decide every speed, gear, rpm combo - by infinitely manipulating these factors, i can have high control over the car's performance and feel very "in touch" with it - does smg provide that - or do computers and other things get between you and the transmission? now a question for you - you say you "drive better" with smg - what do you mean?

thanks,
edl

edl

p.s. can you skip gears in smg? for example, if i am in sixth (but going relatively slowly - say 60mph) and want to use the engine to brake, can i hop down to 3rd without engaging 5th and 4th?

EBMCS03

Ah you mean starting off the line Hummm I'm not sure if SMG would feather the clutch as much as a human would when starting off the line, fast. The clutch is engaged at about 1300 RPMs and from my driving experiecnes whether you start off slow, lightly giving it gas or press the gas harder to accelerate quicker... SMG seems to engage the clutch pretty good. It accelerates fine. And like I said if you chose to use Accelerate Assist it is capable of reving to 4000K before the clutch is engaged... So if you want to say engage the clutch at 2000 or 3000 RPMS then I think you're out of luck. I dont think that can be done.

When you downshift, the car rev matches for you so you will have the right engine speed for the lower gear and yes you can skip gears... I love going from 6 to 4 and listening to that blip.

When braking and dont want additional revs then just dont execute a downshift it will hold that gear till the car thinks its too low and then it will start downshifting to a lower gear but usually by that time the engine is basically at idle speed so it really wont engage the clutch while it downshifts it just downshifts the gears. You can kidna feel that happening.. its like waiting for you just in case you decide to mash on the gas pedel again then it'll be in somewhat a correct gear. (*sorry if i'm not clear*)

And being "in touch" with the car... as for losing touch with the car, what i mean is that with a manual, i decide every speed, gear, rpm combo - by infinitely manipulating these factors, i can have high control over the car's performance and feel very "in touch" with it - does smg provide that

I think so.... you can still decide every speed every gear and what rpm combo you want to drive. In manual mode the car will not up or downshift for you unless you tell it to. Besides if it thinks you're going to stall the car. so it will declutch and downshift when the RPMs are too low.

I think with SMG you have just as much contol of the car's performance as you would with manual... only thing missing is the clutch... and I know thats a huge factor with a lot of people... I like using my left foot too but I also like SMG. I dont think I lose any control with SMG over a proper manual.

Oh when I say drive better? I mean The car always shifts correctly, downshifts and revs matches more times correctly than I do thats all. I can drive a manual perfectly fine probably better than a lot of others on the road but i still cant do everything 100% correct 100% of the time... thats what I ment.

Oh and here if you really want! read this SMG document. I forget who was the initial provider... I think it was Rudy. so thank him.

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=module...cmd=si&img=1623

P.S. Yes you can skip gears... tap it a few times... as many gears as you want to skip... The display still shows 6 5 4 but it is in fact skipping through the gears though.