Replaced E39 with E60 five weeks ago
11-21-2005, 02:38 AM
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Hi, this is my first post. I've had my E60 530d just over 5 weeks now, after upgrading from my previous E39 525d. It's not a brand new car (530d SE, March 2004, 15K miles), but it's new to me, so I thought it would be useful to share my experience with the forum to help others who might be considering trading up from an E39 to an E60.
At first, there were several things about the E60 that I really didn't like, most notably the iDrive and the computer controlled indicators. Having lived with the car a few weeks, I have actually begun to like it and appreciate it for what it is, and it is a very good car.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the design team for the E60 had never owned or driven an E39. For anyone like me looking to upgrade from the E39 to the E60, it may come as a big shock; this is not an updated E39, it is a completely different car. If feels like they didn't start with the E39 as a base, but started with a totally blank sheet of paper. The result is undoubtedly a very good car, but virtually nothing is carried over from the previous car. This means some things are better, but some things are worse - it's a very different car, and almost could be from a different manufacturer.
So how do I feel after almost 2,000 miles? Well, I still don't really like the iDrive, but I have learned to live with it. On the test drive, I struggled to tune the radio using the iDrive (it's not exactly intuitive). Now I know how to use it, tuning the radio isn't that hard, and now I have my 6 favourite stations stored, I can change channels using the +/- buttons on the steering wheel, so I don't need to touch the iDrive. This is a major bonus and is almost as easy as pushing the buttons on the radio in the E39 :-)
I still hate the indicator controls, with a vengeance. Why did BMW think they needed to "improve" the indicator stalk operation of the E39? What idiot thought that giving the computer control of the indicators was better than letting the driver decide when to cancel them? I am appalled that the same senseless design is being propagated into the new E90 3-Series too. It's going to cause accidents. People coming from other cars are going to continue to signal when they didn't intend to, and won't be able to turn off the turn signal when they need to. Madness. One of my friends summed it up nicely: "Whoever designed these indicator controls has never actually driven a car". I think there's a real opportunity for an aftermarket kit to replace the indicator stalk with a "normal" manually controlled version.
Other minor gripes: the runflats are pretty awful, and the runflat monitoring system has already given me one false alarm 120 miles from home, probably caused by wet leaves on the ground allowing wheelspin when pulling out of a junction. The interior trim creaks and the standard sound system is very tinny (especially playing CDs) and nowhere near as good as the one in the E39. The "sports" steering wheel is nowhere near as good as the M-Sport steering wheel in my E39, which was nice and chunky with soft leather. The new one is hard and thinner, it has good grip but is just not as pleasant to hold, whereas the old one was a joy.
Do I miss the E39? Yes, and what a bargain they are to buy at 4+ years old. If only I didn't drive 16,000 miles a year I would have kept mine - in fact I kept it an extra year beyond the end of warranty, only selling it once it went over 65K miles.
So what's better in the E60? The seats are more comfortable, the boot (trunk) is bigger. Being able to pop the boot wide open by remote control when walking back towards the car is a neat trick. I also like being able to flash the rear fog lights (at idiots who leave their fog lights on the next day, or worse, into the night) without flashing the fronts. I have upgraded from a 525d to a 530d so I have more power :-> There is less engine noise, but increased tyre/road noise. I think the new car looks better - the E39 is looking just a little old-fashioned now, especially around the front-end (lights and grill) and the rear lights. The E60 certainly looks much more modern.
Plans:
1) I'd really like to replace the run-flats. They're very noisy (particularly on certain road surfaces) and they feel very hard when going over bumps in the road. I guess by design there's no give in the tyre walls, and I can really feel it - as others have described it is like driving on solid wooden wheels. My car has only done 15K miles, so there's still plenty of tread left on the tyres, especially the fonts, so I am a little reluctant to throw them away. I might wait until the rears are worn out, and get a complete set of normal tyres then.
2) I would like to get the DMS ECU upgrade. I plan to keep the car 3 years, so I will get most benefit by getting it done sooner. However I am concerned at the increase in insurance premiums (you need to inform insurance company to be sure car is insured in case of a serious accident - and to be able to sleep at night). My new insurance year starts mid December, so I will find out more in the next few weeks as I shop around for best deal with and without chipping.
In summary, I feel it was an upgrade - just a bit annoying that some things are worse. Like many on this forum, I really like the E60, but wish BMW would sort out the minor niggles that prevent this from being a truly great car.
At first, there were several things about the E60 that I really didn't like, most notably the iDrive and the computer controlled indicators. Having lived with the car a few weeks, I have actually begun to like it and appreciate it for what it is, and it is a very good car.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the design team for the E60 had never owned or driven an E39. For anyone like me looking to upgrade from the E39 to the E60, it may come as a big shock; this is not an updated E39, it is a completely different car. If feels like they didn't start with the E39 as a base, but started with a totally blank sheet of paper. The result is undoubtedly a very good car, but virtually nothing is carried over from the previous car. This means some things are better, but some things are worse - it's a very different car, and almost could be from a different manufacturer.
So how do I feel after almost 2,000 miles? Well, I still don't really like the iDrive, but I have learned to live with it. On the test drive, I struggled to tune the radio using the iDrive (it's not exactly intuitive). Now I know how to use it, tuning the radio isn't that hard, and now I have my 6 favourite stations stored, I can change channels using the +/- buttons on the steering wheel, so I don't need to touch the iDrive. This is a major bonus and is almost as easy as pushing the buttons on the radio in the E39 :-)
I still hate the indicator controls, with a vengeance. Why did BMW think they needed to "improve" the indicator stalk operation of the E39? What idiot thought that giving the computer control of the indicators was better than letting the driver decide when to cancel them? I am appalled that the same senseless design is being propagated into the new E90 3-Series too. It's going to cause accidents. People coming from other cars are going to continue to signal when they didn't intend to, and won't be able to turn off the turn signal when they need to. Madness. One of my friends summed it up nicely: "Whoever designed these indicator controls has never actually driven a car". I think there's a real opportunity for an aftermarket kit to replace the indicator stalk with a "normal" manually controlled version.
Other minor gripes: the runflats are pretty awful, and the runflat monitoring system has already given me one false alarm 120 miles from home, probably caused by wet leaves on the ground allowing wheelspin when pulling out of a junction. The interior trim creaks and the standard sound system is very tinny (especially playing CDs) and nowhere near as good as the one in the E39. The "sports" steering wheel is nowhere near as good as the M-Sport steering wheel in my E39, which was nice and chunky with soft leather. The new one is hard and thinner, it has good grip but is just not as pleasant to hold, whereas the old one was a joy.
Do I miss the E39? Yes, and what a bargain they are to buy at 4+ years old. If only I didn't drive 16,000 miles a year I would have kept mine - in fact I kept it an extra year beyond the end of warranty, only selling it once it went over 65K miles.
So what's better in the E60? The seats are more comfortable, the boot (trunk) is bigger. Being able to pop the boot wide open by remote control when walking back towards the car is a neat trick. I also like being able to flash the rear fog lights (at idiots who leave their fog lights on the next day, or worse, into the night) without flashing the fronts. I have upgraded from a 525d to a 530d so I have more power :-> There is less engine noise, but increased tyre/road noise. I think the new car looks better - the E39 is looking just a little old-fashioned now, especially around the front-end (lights and grill) and the rear lights. The E60 certainly looks much more modern.
Plans:
1) I'd really like to replace the run-flats. They're very noisy (particularly on certain road surfaces) and they feel very hard when going over bumps in the road. I guess by design there's no give in the tyre walls, and I can really feel it - as others have described it is like driving on solid wooden wheels. My car has only done 15K miles, so there's still plenty of tread left on the tyres, especially the fonts, so I am a little reluctant to throw them away. I might wait until the rears are worn out, and get a complete set of normal tyres then.
2) I would like to get the DMS ECU upgrade. I plan to keep the car 3 years, so I will get most benefit by getting it done sooner. However I am concerned at the increase in insurance premiums (you need to inform insurance company to be sure car is insured in case of a serious accident - and to be able to sleep at night). My new insurance year starts mid December, so I will find out more in the next few weeks as I shop around for best deal with and without chipping.
In summary, I feel it was an upgrade - just a bit annoying that some things are worse. Like many on this forum, I really like the E60, but wish BMW would sort out the minor niggles that prevent this from being a truly great car.
11-21-2005, 02:51 AM
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Hi red-max
Welcome to the forums, great first post
You'll find an absolute wealth of information on here, and everyone is really friendly.
Indicators: Yep they are certainly different and take soem getting used to. Remember, if you don't like the triple-flash mode, you can turn it off in i-drive settings. Either way you absolutely can cancel the signal in either mode - when the indicator is flashing press it up to the point of resistance (but not past) in any direction and it will cancel it.
I am replacing my runflats tomorrow, so I'll let you know I get on. I've had the bridgestone on for 30k miles, but I feel I'm missing some magic by not having non-RF's on. You know, it's just a feeling.
Good luck with the DMS tune, I'd like to do it in the future. I believe some insureres won't hike your premium for it. But I guess it depends what they're charging in the first place
Welcome to the forums, great first post
You'll find an absolute wealth of information on here, and everyone is really friendly.
Indicators: Yep they are certainly different and take soem getting used to. Remember, if you don't like the triple-flash mode, you can turn it off in i-drive settings. Either way you absolutely can cancel the signal in either mode - when the indicator is flashing press it up to the point of resistance (but not past) in any direction and it will cancel it.
I am replacing my runflats tomorrow, so I'll let you know I get on. I've had the bridgestone on for 30k miles, but I feel I'm missing some magic by not having non-RF's on. You know, it's just a feeling.
Good luck with the DMS tune, I'd like to do it in the future. I believe some insureres won't hike your premium for it. But I guess it depends what they're charging in the first place
11-21-2005, 03:12 AM
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Other minor gripes: the runflats are pretty awful, and the runflat monitoring system has already given me one false alarm 120 miles from home, probably caused by wet leaves on the ground allowing wheelspin when pulling out of a junction. The interior trim creaks and the standard sound system is very tinny (especially playing CDs) and nowhere near as good as the one in the E39.
1) I'd really like to replace the run-flats. They're very noisy (particularly on certain road surfaces) and they feel very hard when going over bumps in the road. I guess by design there's no give in the tyre walls, and I can really feel it - as others have described it is like driving on solid wooden wheels. My car has only done 15K miles, so there's still plenty of tread left on the tyres, especially the fonts, so I am a little reluctant to throw them away. I might wait until the rears are worn out, and get a complete set of normal tyres then.
1) I'd really like to replace the run-flats. They're very noisy (particularly on certain road surfaces) and they feel very hard when going over bumps in the road. I guess by design there's no give in the tyre walls, and I can really feel it - as others have described it is like driving on solid wooden wheels. My car has only done 15K miles, so there's still plenty of tread left on the tyres, especially the fonts, so I am a little reluctant to throw them away. I might wait until the rears are worn out, and get a complete set of normal tyres then.
The default sound system is 'ok' but as ever with BMW you need to dive into the options to get something really decent. However, this gives them scope to improve the spec over time to increase sales... (Early adopters pay more)
Indicators: Yep they are certainly different and take soem getting used to. Remember, if you don't like the triple-flash mode, you can turn it off in i-drive settings. Either way you absolutely can cancel the signal in either mode - when the indicator is flashing press it up to the point of resistance (but not past) in any direction and it will cancel it.
Indeed - I remember I fluffed in big time for my test drive but after about 5 minutes it's so intuitive! Price of 'progress' I guess!
Best option (If you must tell the insurer) is to look at some specialist broker service.
11-21-2005, 05:14 AM
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My Ride: 545iSMGSilver GrayAuburn Dakota LeatherLogic 7 Premium SoundSports Package
Nice write up. Good post. Welcome aboard to the Clan... errr Club... I mean messageboard!
11-21-2005, 08:04 AM
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msport package, steptronic, pdc, mystik blue, grey dakota leather, sunroof, Bi-Xenon, heated rear seats, Hi-FI system, velour carpets
Welcome to the forum! Nice topic!
11-21-2005, 08:18 AM
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My Ride: Alpine White/Biege 545i, CWP, Nav, Active Steering, Auto Step ordered 2/1/05
Originally Posted by colejl' post='201371' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:12 AM
This is a common 'complaint' that Vauxhall have had too. However, personally I think they're great. BTW you know you can easily cancel them but a small tap in either direction...
11-21-2005, 08:38 AM
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Oh dear, pannick mode ........
2 days ago I sold my E39 - a beautiful condition 528i SE Auto that I've run since 12 months old - 5 years of virtually trouble free motoring Top spec model - leather, climate, sun-roof, big wheels, etc etc etc., and I have to admit to being quite sad to see it go. However...............
I've another 10 days to wait and I'll take delivery of my E60 - a manual (stick!) shift oil burner! The day that I spent testing one, I found the i-drive to be pretty user friendly - my only real issue was that the "oh so very handy" manual temperature control on the E39s centre vents has been replaced with a 3-step control through the i-drive - totally mad downgrade.
The indicators are as stated, a complete non-sensical change on an international system that leaves little needing changing - but having ridden BMW motorcycles in the past I know they're not unfamiliar to developing odd setups!
Only other downside that I envisage, is that the E39 was effectively the "best car you could buy in the real world" - a very solid and pleasurable workhorse - I'm a little worried the E60 may not live up to the same. I've gone for a non-sport model with the basic sports suspension (non-M) as an option - this combined with 17" wheels should make the run-flats almost bearable. I hope!
Waiting in anticipation though!
2 days ago I sold my E39 - a beautiful condition 528i SE Auto that I've run since 12 months old - 5 years of virtually trouble free motoring
Top spec model - leather, climate, sun-roof, big wheels, etc etc etc., and I have to admit to being quite sad to see it go. However...............I've another 10 days to wait and I'll take delivery of my E60 - a manual (stick!) shift oil burner! The day that I spent testing one, I found the i-drive to be pretty user friendly - my only real issue was that the "oh so very handy" manual temperature control on the E39s centre vents has been replaced with a 3-step control through the i-drive - totally mad downgrade.
The indicators are as stated, a complete non-sensical change on an international system that leaves little needing changing - but having ridden BMW motorcycles in the past I know they're not unfamiliar to developing odd setups!
Only other downside that I envisage, is that the E39 was effectively the "best car you could buy in the real world" - a very solid and pleasurable workhorse - I'm a little worried the E60 may not live up to the same. I've gone for a non-sport model with the basic sports suspension (non-M) as an option - this combined with 17" wheels should make the run-flats almost bearable. I hope!
Waiting in anticipation though!
11-21-2005, 08:50 AM
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[/quote]
Spooky!
Are you sure this means the 'light-press' not the 'full-press'?I think I'll avoid v19 then
11-21-2005, 09:25 AM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
My Ride:
523i Steptronic, Silver Grey Exterior, Black Interior with Black Dakota Leather and Maple Wood Trim. Chrome Grill, Style 123 rim, Airbags everywhere, PDC, Rain sensor, Auto lights, Moveable front armrest, Advance Climate Control, Glass Sunroof, Auto dimming interior and exterior mirror with foldable functions, Extended Lights package, 6 CD changer in glove box, Power seats with memory, Power adjustable steering wheel, Power rear sunblinds.
Add ons: 123 wheels, chrome grill, K&N Hi flow filter, Eibach Pro Kit, e60.net decal and 24,000km
Past rides:
2001 Nissan Xterra SE
1999 E39 523i
1999 E46 323i
1996 Acura Integra LS
Hey Congrats! Welcome aboard.
I too upgraded from the E39 to E60 and yes there are pros and cons like I am missing my trunk (boot) release button inside the car now. But hey, if you keep on thinking about how good your old girl is you will never enjoy what the new one have to offer, just my 2 cents.
I too upgraded from the E39 to E60 and yes there are pros and cons like I am missing my trunk (boot) release button inside the car now. But hey, if you keep on thinking about how good your old girl is you will never enjoy what the new one have to offer, just my 2 cents.