Rear wheels toed in?
02-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' post='799101' date='Feb 22 2009, 06:57 PM
I agree with you but take a look here to see that it is, in fact, possible on an internet forum to get the two confused... 
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=10707
Here are the alignment specs for both the "normal" suspension and the "sport" suspension:
Normal:
Attachment 72466
Sport:
Attachment 72467
As you can see, there is some toe in specified but it's not as noticeable to the naked eye as the negative camber in the rear (which is why the negative camber question is raised here fairly often and why many of us assume that's what people are noticing...)
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=10707
Here are the alignment specs for both the "normal" suspension and the "sport" suspension:
Normal:
Attachment 72466
Sport:
Attachment 72467
As you can see, there is some toe in specified but it's not as noticeable to the naked eye as the negative camber in the rear (which is why the negative camber question is raised here fairly often and why many of us assume that's what people are noticing...)
In terms of the front, most cars spec slight toe in as well. That gives you stability at the expense of response. I personally light the front end slightly toe out, especially on already front heavy cars like the BMW. 1/16" per side is enough for me though.
Toe changes chew up your tire life really fast, so if you're wildly off, your tires won't last very long at all.
02-22-2009, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleForums' post='799185' date='Feb 22 2009, 10:55 PM
Toe changes chew up your tire life really fast, so if you're wildly off, your tires won't last very long at all.
02-22-2009, 10:51 PM
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Hi All
When I was 19 I worked part time in a race car workshop (best job ever!) and I was taught all about this stuff (at least I thought so) so was about to write my 5c worth however i figured someone would know far more than me - and they do:
Perfect explanation:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
Cheers
stu
When I was 19 I worked part time in a race car workshop (best job ever!) and I was taught all about this stuff (at least I thought so) so was about to write my 5c worth however i figured someone would know far more than me - and they do:
Perfect explanation:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
Cheers
stu
02-23-2009, 04:12 AM
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Cool thanks for those specs rudy, that is good to know. Funny thing is I have never had uneven tire wear so the slight Toe-in must be subtle enough not to chew up tires excessively which is a good thing. I have always noticed my e60 was ultra stable on high speed highway drives and this probably just adds to that stability so makes sense considering these cars are driven on autobahns regularly. Thanks for the tips and info guys
02-23-2009, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kiwistu' post='799230' date='Feb 23 2009, 02:51 AM
Originally Posted by Smithees Race Car Technologies photo caption
(TOP RIGHT) Positive camber: The bottoms of the wheels are closer together than the tops. (TOP LEFT) Negative camber: The tops of the wheels are closer together than the bottoms. (CENTER) When a suspension does not gain camber during deflection, this causes a severe positive camber condition when the car leans during cornering. This can cause funky handling. (BOTTOM) Fight the funk: A suspension that gains camber during deflection will compensate for body roll. Tuning dynamic camber angles is one of the black arts of suspension tuning.
02-23-2009, 11:07 AM
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My Ride: E60 530d M-Sport
Slight Toe in on the rear wheels is perfectly normal - it helps to stabilise RWD cars, especially as the suspension squashes into compression or under tractional situations, in fact most RWD cars suspensiont is engineered to add "toe-in" as the rear compresses.
As with Super Sizing your BIG Mac, too much of a good thing is actually bad ............and there is plenty of bottoms to prove that one
As with Super Sizing your BIG Mac, too much of a good thing is actually bad ............and there is plenty of bottoms to prove that one
02-23-2009, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 545OH' post='799300' date='Feb 23 2009, 05:12 AM
Funny thing is I have never had uneven tire wear so the slight Toe-in must be subtle enough not to chew up tires excessively which is a good thing.
It's not so much uneven tire wear as fast tire wear with too big positive or negative toe.
02-23-2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleForums' post='799790' date='Feb 23 2009, 08:46 PM
It's not so much uneven tire wear as fast tire wear with too big positive or negative toe.
02-23-2009, 06:55 PM
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Hi Rudy
I'm with you I think the pic is wrong, good spoting - apart from the mistake its a reasonable explaination I think!
Two more comments:
1. The link about suspension is one that the global community of boy racers could benefit from! I always think how unsafe those cars look bouncing down the road on their bump stops!
2. I think - if wish to lower your 5 series you should use the genuine springs (can you buy them?)
Cheers
stu
I'm with you I think the pic is wrong, good spoting - apart from the mistake its a reasonable explaination I think!
Two more comments:
1. The link about suspension is one that the global community of boy racers could benefit from! I always think how unsafe those cars look bouncing down the road on their bump stops!
2. I think - if wish to lower your 5 series you should use the genuine springs (can you buy them?)
Cheers
stu
02-23-2009, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 545OH' post='799801' date='Feb 23 2009, 06:10 PM
Actually it is purely uneven wear with toe in/out. Caster on the other hand can be off and cause overall faster tire wear without uneveness
It shouldn't, unless you have other alignment specs off, or your suspension has problems. It's only rotating the footprint.
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