Presley348

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LOL!

Presley348

Huh,???,,What did you say,,can you speak a little louder...Rudy? :'( Just kidding! (LOL)

Evenflow545

Oh, geez, Darkside. Lighten up. I was just yanking your chain for a second. If you want a ride with the funky bass, go on and get ya some. Please, just keep it down if you're driving through my hood.

juan2mini

I for one am glad Evenflow545 is back in all his glory. He brings something to the party every time.

Evenflow545

Thanks, Juan. I try to keep life fun.

Evenflow545

And, as an addendum, Juan, I must add that I appreciate the support. I'm a positive guy, and I love the e60. However, I'm also a realist, and the e60 has a couple of annoying faults that need to be discussed in this forum.

Furthermore, as far as the BMW sound system goes, I tried to upgrade a 2001 Z3, and spent a whole bunch of cash doing next to nothing. I listen to music everyday of my life. Just bought today (finally) the remastered Live at Leeds and Supertramp's "Paris." Logic 7 is absolutely fine for me, but may not be for some folks. If the sound sucks, just slam your right foot to the floor. The quintessential "bad sound" remedy.

TitaniumGray5

Can you clarify what you meant here? Logic 7 better on or off?

EBMCS03

WHAT?! Its a complete package... BMW is a "luxury" car too... If I just wanted somthing that drives and handles and nothing else theres somthing out there that can drive and handle better for a lot less... The 5 is one the of the better packages out there...

subterFUSE

Sure... I can explain. Now that I look back, I see how that might be confusing.



Logic 7 uses processors to analyse the music before it plays through your speakers. It separates sounds by the frequency range, and then directs those sounds to certain speakers.

For example, vocal sounds often fall in the midrange.... so with the Logic 7 processing turned on... vocals are directed mostly to the center channel speaker.



As most audio buffs know.... processing = distortion. While there are certainly excellent processors on the market... the best are always ridiculously expensive... and the Logic 7 is not one of them. So, there is noticable distortion to the music as the result of the L7 processing. I have been constantly reminded of this shortcoming every time I listen to my Logic 7 stereo.



So the quality of the sound is better with the Logic 7 turned off. But this is not the only test of a good stereo system. There is another phenominon called "stereo imaging."

Stereo imaging refers to the ability of your system to accurately recreate the sound of a live performance... and specifically, to recreate the audible location of each instrument or vocalist. It works like this: Imagine if you were listening to a band play, and they are up on a stage in front of you. Lets say that there is a guitar player on the left side of the stage, and a bass player on the right. In the back center, there is a drummer... and in the center front is a vocalist.

If you were listening to these band players... wouldn't you expect that the sounds of the guitar would come from the left side of the stage? That is where he is standing.... so of course, you should be able to locate him by ear. If you closed your eyes, you could probably point to the guitar... or point to the vocalist.

Stereo imaging refers to the stereo's capability to accurately reproduce that soundfield... where you can close your eyes, and feel like you are not listening to sound coming from 2 speakers... but rather from a wide soundfield, where you can point to the location that each band member sounds like they are standing.



So, a high quality stereo will make the listener feel like they are listening to a performance on stage... not inside a car. Creating a good soundfield in a car is a VERY difficult task. This is because a car is probably one of the worst acoustical spaces you could imagine. To begin with, the listener is sitting on one side of the car... so they are not in the sweet spot (point equidistant from the speakers). There is also lots of glass, which reflects sound in all sorts of directions.

There are two methods of compensating for the poor qualities of an auto interior.

1. Move the speakers to locations where the distance to the listener is more equal.

2. Use processing to alter the characteristics of the sound before it is played through the speakers.



The first method is the better of the two. If you were to view a high-end car stereo competition, you would see many contestants who use this method. They do so in a number of ways. One way is to install speakers in the kickpanels, by the feet of the driver and passenger. This method takes standard speakers, and moves them to a place where the distance to the driver's or passenger's ears to the left or right speakers is, more or less, equal.

Another method is to use waveguide style speakers, also called compression horns. Compression horns mount underneath the dash, and are well known for their incredible imaging qualities. Compression horns are also excellent because they replace the need for midrange speakers and tweeters, combining both frequency ranges into a single point source.

You will also see people using processors.

Processors can be used in different ways. One method is called time-alignment. Time alignment works by delaying the sounds from one side of the car so that the sound hits the driver from both sides at the same time.... giving the illusion that the speakers on the driver's side are actually mounted outside the vehicle. This method works well, but only for the driver. The passenger side actually sounds worse than without processing.

Another method is to use phase shift controllers to alter the characteristics of the speaker cone movement on certain speakers, to compensate for less-than-ideal speaker placement... (ie midrange & tweeter located far apart.... like midrange in the lower door, and tweeter by the sideview mirrors)

Another method is to install a surround sound processor, and use a center channel setup like a home theater. This is what the Logic 7 does.


Back to the E60 now.

When I listen to the stereo with the processing turned off, I feel the sound quality is better. But I do not like the stereo imaging with the L7 off. It sounds like the music is coming from behind me, and I hate that. I like to have a strong, frontal soundstage.

With the L7 turned on, the stereo image is drastically improved. Vocals come from the front and center, and the rest of the music comes from a wider soundfield, but still mostly up front. I really prefer this, even with the distortion.

I find that the Concert Hall setting sounds better for music than the Theater Mode.
The soundfield sounds wider on the concert setting. Theater has more bias to the center channel.

pmmeke

If you use concert hall settings, does the 6 rear speakers give you the impression that sound is coming from behind you?