lifetime ATF BMW oil
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From: Tacoma, WA
well no fluid is lifetime but i think what bmw is referring to is the lifetime of the vehicle which is somewhat true IF (BIG IF TOO) you do preventative measures and take care of your car when you are suppose to and dont abuse it.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
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Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048486' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:24 AM
well no fluid is lifetime but i think what bmw is referring to is the lifetime of the vehicle which is somewhat true IF (BIG IF TOO) you do preventative measures and take care of your car when you are suppose to and dont abuse it.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
For normal day to day drive and not pushing it I think it will be OK
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From: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted by pinguhk' post='1048501' date='Nov 5 2009, 06:54 PM
with some of us pushing the car I think we need to do the change.
For normal day to day drive and not pushing it I think it will be OK
For normal day to day drive and not pushing it I think it will be OK
doubtful, bmw's are a drivers car for a reason, they are tested to be driven spirited
by abused i mean neglecting the car for any type of care and smoking the tires and brakes all the time
MOST people on this forum dont fall into that category, some might but still, changing out your ATF if you abused it will expose severe problems and youre better off not doing it
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Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048486' date='Nov 5 2009, 06:24 PM
well no fluid is lifetime but i think what bmw is referring to is the lifetime of the vehicle which is somewhat true IF (BIG IF TOO) you do preventative measures and take care of your car when you are suppose to and dont abuse it.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
ATF fluid is complex and its not just like changing oil as many people would think or even prefer. It really will depend on the machine that is used to change the fluid or refill it. If that machine is able to gather all loose metals and particles then you should be ok but usually a tranny is going to fail before a flush is done and the flush simply makes it more obvious
I wouldnt change it if everything is operating normally, I would have a mechanic inspect and do a diagnosis to see if everything is good first.
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From: Princeton Junction, NJ
Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048565' date='Nov 5 2009, 11:35 PM
doubtful, bmw's are a drivers car for a reason, they are tested to be driven spirited
by abused i mean neglecting the car for any type of care and smoking the tires and brakes all the time
MOST people on this forum dont fall into that category, some might but still, changing out your ATF if you abused it will expose severe problems and youre better off not doing it
by abused i mean neglecting the car for any type of care and smoking the tires and brakes all the time
MOST people on this forum dont fall into that category, some might but still, changing out your ATF if you abused it will expose severe problems and youre better off not doing it
If anything, not changing your ATF is neglecting to take care for the car. I am sure if you were to check the demographics of 5 series owners, most of them are not spirited drivers. We tend to think that every BMW owner is a car junky like us. The matter of fact is that we are an extremely small percentage of the overall owner population. This site is frequented by car guys/gals. I doubt more than 2-5% of BMW owners either care for or know of this site.
Just to play along, I would suggest you keep notes of the next 20-25 E60's you see on the road. I bet you, most of the owners will not pass for our type. Heck, even my E60 is driven by my wife, even though I am the one frequenting this site
.as you stated, "Most people on this forum don't fall into this category", but most E60 owners don't fall into this forum or forum category either.
I for one have been burnt by not changing the so called "lifetime fluid". I plan to change mine every 60-80k regardless of what koolaid bmw is trying to sell. That is why I spent hrs writing that DIY.
Regards.
Raj
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From: Princeton Junction, NJ
Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048425' date='Nov 5 2009, 08:06 PM
nobody losses their transmission due to not changing fluid, there is often tranny abuse that goes right along with it.
Its best not to do a flush but rather a drain and fill, there are some machines that are great at getting and of the loose gunk that happens when you flush but its around $180 to get that service and generally not worth it unless you are monitoring your car carefully
Its best not to do a flush but rather a drain and fill, there are some machines that are great at getting and of the loose gunk that happens when you flush but its around $180 to get that service and generally not worth it unless you are monitoring your car carefully
. They will not be screwing me over again, I promise!I doubt most DIYer's have the capability to do a complete flush. That would require some machine that allows you to get into the torque convertor. It's the same with oil change. We don't get all of the oil out, some sits in the oil cooler and it's associated lines. Yes, it's not 40%, like a torque convertor but still you never get a 100% drain.
Drain and fill twice would get you very close to a full flush. Also, there are magnets in the oil pan to catch metal shavings. I would be happy to post pics of what I found on my magnets.
Regards.
Raj
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From: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted by 968turboS' post='1048755' date='Nov 6 2009, 05:23 AM
I did lose a transmission by buying into "bmw lifetime" . They will not be screwing me over again, I promise!
I doubt most DIYer's have the capability to do a complete flush. That would require some machine that allows you to get into the torque convertor. It's the same with oil change. We don't get all of the oil out, some sits in the oil cooler and it's associated lines. Yes, it's not 40%, like a torque convertor but still you never get a 100% drain.
Drain and fill twice would get you very close to a full flush. Also, there are magnets in the oil pan to catch metal shavings. I would be happy to post pics of what I found on my magnets.
Regards.
Raj
. They will not be screwing me over again, I promise!I doubt most DIYer's have the capability to do a complete flush. That would require some machine that allows you to get into the torque convertor. It's the same with oil change. We don't get all of the oil out, some sits in the oil cooler and it's associated lines. Yes, it's not 40%, like a torque convertor but still you never get a 100% drain.
Drain and fill twice would get you very close to a full flush. Also, there are magnets in the oil pan to catch metal shavings. I would be happy to post pics of what I found on my magnets.
Regards.
Raj
please do post pics of what you found
but i suspect there is more to the issue of "losing and transmission by buying into bmw lifetime" etc
did you every have it inspected thoroughly? did you ask them to? what where you shifting habits like?
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From: Princeton Junction, NJ
Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048837' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:58 AM
please do post pics of what you found
but i suspect there is more to the issue of "losing and transmission by buying into bmw lifetime" etc
did you every have it inspected thoroughly? did you ask them to? what where you shifting habits like?
but i suspect there is more to the issue of "losing and transmission by buying into bmw lifetime" etc
did you every have it inspected thoroughly? did you ask them to? what where you shifting habits like?
What I have a hard time understanding is, if people are not willing to buy into 16-18k oil change intervals, why are they ok with lifetime ATF. How can anything be lifetime? Its a fluid, it will eventually break down, no matter how good it is.
To be honest, I do abide by factory OCI but cannot see myself waiting till 100k before I drain my ATF.
Regards.
Raj
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From: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted by 968turboS' post='1048954' date='Nov 6 2009, 10:55 AM
I never abused that car, never shifted manually. Just took care of maintenance but did not change transmission fluid because when I asked, I was told that it was lifetime fluid. One fine day, at 134k it stopped moving. I had to give it away to a charity. It still bugs me because the cost of fixing it was not worth it.
What I have a hard time understanding is, if people are not willing to buy into 16-18k oil change intervals, why are they ok with lifetime ATF. How can anything be lifetime? Its a fluid, it will eventually break down, no matter how good it is.
To be honest, I do abide by factory OCI but cannot see myself waiting till 100k before I drain my ATF.
Regards.
Raj
What I have a hard time understanding is, if people are not willing to buy into 16-18k oil change intervals, why are they ok with lifetime ATF. How can anything be lifetime? Its a fluid, it will eventually break down, no matter how good it is.
To be honest, I do abide by factory OCI but cannot see myself waiting till 100k before I drain my ATF.
Regards.
Raj
hmmm thats pretty interesting. I would have asked them to run a transmission diagnostic to verify that everything was operating as it should. That's very painful though. I would have called BMW NA and had them pay for a transmission repair since you did exactly what they prescribed and it still failed.
sorry to hear that, thats a tough bullet to have to bite, especially when you are doing what you are suppose to.
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Originally Posted by PraiseTheLowered' post='1048994' date='Nov 6 2009, 01:51 PM
I would have called BMW NA and had them pay for a transmission repair since you did exactly what they prescribed and it still failed.
What is the length of a car's lifetime? I'm pretty sure that no manufacturer will answer that question. You might as well ask, "How long is a piece of string?"
I agree with 968turboS and will be changing mine out at 50K.