E39 vs. E60
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Originally Posted by Merv the Derv' post='370597' date='Dec 23 2006, 08:46 PM
IMO the E39 handles better than E60. However My old 528i would be just spooling up as the 535d left it standing with its instant mind-numbing grunt.
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='370756' date='Dec 24 2006, 08:27 PM
Erm - an extra 80 bhp and about twice the torque may help... you should really compare the 535d with the 540i.
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Originally Posted by amigo525' post='370713' date='Dec 24 2006, 09:05 AM
I had both and both are great machines. For some reason the seats of my e39 felt better thought. JMHO
#24
The fact that we are even having this discussion, now 3 full years into the e60 lifecycle, is very telling.
See recent thread on I-drive for more e60 disappointment...
See recent thread on I-drive for more e60 disappointment...
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Originally Posted by TXPearl' post='370885' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:41 AM
The fact that we are even having this discussion, now 3 full years into the e60 lifecycle, is very telling.
See recent thread on I-drive for more e60 disappointment...
See recent thread on I-drive for more e60 disappointment...
Think Audi Quattro, the "original" M3 (E30) or 635 Csi (to pick some of the icons I remember "live" and that are probably valid worldwide). All cars that now are well past their best, and soundly beaten from an objective point of view by their modern equivalent, but still maintain a mystique and image that an RS4, E46 M3 or E63 M6 simply do not equal. Or perhaps even better - since those above are "special" cars - how about the original Mini or the Porsche 911 964/993?
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='371009' date='Dec 25 2006, 02:31 PM
Mmm - yeah. Another way of looking at it is that the E39 redefined what a mid-size luxury saloon could "be", and it will probably be remembered for that for a long time to come. It's not that the E60 is not good, or even better than the E39. It's just not "that much" better.
Think Audi Quattro, the "original" M3 (E30) or 635 Csi (to pick some of the icons I remember "live" and that are probably valid worldwide). All cars that now are well past their best, and soundly beaten from an objective point of view by their modern equivalent, but still maintain a mystique and image that an RS4, E46 M3 or E63 M6 simply do not equal. Or perhaps even better - since those above are "special" cars - how about the original Mini or the Porsche 911 964/993?
Think Audi Quattro, the "original" M3 (E30) or 635 Csi (to pick some of the icons I remember "live" and that are probably valid worldwide). All cars that now are well past their best, and soundly beaten from an objective point of view by their modern equivalent, but still maintain a mystique and image that an RS4, E46 M3 or E63 M6 simply do not equal. Or perhaps even better - since those above are "special" cars - how about the original Mini or the Porsche 911 964/993?
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371011' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:58 PM
I agree, it's easy to look back with nostalgia but you only have to drive an E39 and an E60 back to back to see the differences. To me it's clear that the E60 is a better car in every respect, but compared to its peers the gap is arguably smaller than it was when the E39 was available for sale - the E39's peers weren't as good as the peers the E60 needs to despatch. It's not just a five series issue. The same is true across the BMW range, though - competitors are getting much closer, if not arguably better in some cases. That's a product of one simple thing - it's much easier for the other manufacturers to follow and to have a target to aim at than it is to lead. It's much harder for BMW to have to continually keep its cars at the top of their respective class, and those model on model improvements don't come easy when the prior generation car was itself at the top of its game. That said, BMW did exactly what it set out to do and make the E60 a better car than the E39.
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371011' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:58 PM
I agree, it's easy to look back with nostalgia but you only have to drive an E39 and an E60 back to back to see the differences. To me it's clear that the E60 is a better car in every respect, but compared to its peers the gap is arguably smaller than it was when the E39 was available for sale - the E39's peers weren't as good as the peers the E60 needs to despatch. It's not just a five series issue. The same is true across the BMW range, though - competitors are getting much closer, if not arguably better in some cases. That's a product of one simple thing - it's much easier for the other manufacturers to follow and to have a target to aim at than it is to lead. It's much harder for BMW to have to continually keep its cars at the top of their respective class, and those model on model improvements don't come easy when the prior generation car was itself at the top of its game. That said, BMW did exactly what it set out to do and make the E60 a better car than the E39.
Happy holidays,
DRP
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Originally Posted by 550isport' post='371133' date='Dec 26 2006, 03:40 PM
[snip] But the 5, 6 and 7 all need more sporty character (i.e. suspensions not just engines) injected into them. This is the risk that BMW must take (that is loosing the buyers that love the softness of the new 5, 6, and 7 cars). You must look to your strengths in times of need. BMW needs to beat its closing competitiors and its strenghts lie in producing reliable, near track-ready daily drivers that cause people to take the long way home. You shouldn't have to buy an M car to get this feeling.
Happy holidays,
DRP
Happy holidays,
DRP
BMW never produced "near track-ready daily drivers", with a few notable exceptions (first M3, E46 M3 CSL etc.) and these were mostly M-cars anyway. In this respect Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari (and Honda NSX) probably are the closest, at least with some of their models.
However, the thread is not about the competition, but about the E39 vs the E60...
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='371011' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:58 PM
I agree, it's easy to look back with nostalgia but you only have to drive an E39 and an E60 back to back to see the differences. To me it's clear that the E60 is a better car in every respect, but compared to its peers the gap is arguably smaller than it was when the E39 was available for sale - the E39's peers weren't as good as the peers the E60 needs to despatch. It's not just a five series issue. The same is true across the BMW range, though - competitors are getting much closer, if not arguably better in some cases. That's a product of one simple thing - it's much easier for the other manufacturers to follow and to have a target to aim at than it is to lead. It's much harder for BMW to have to continually keep its cars at the top of their respective class, and those model on model improvements don't come easy when the prior generation car was itself at the top of its game. That said, BMW did exactly what it set out to do and make the E60 a better car than the E39.