DSC and DTC confusion
02-02-2005, 08:09 AM
#41
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Urbo, the dealer SHOULD explain all features and how to use them to the customer upon delivery. Also ppl SHOULD read the manual.
I know that the reality is different. It's kinda sad.
I was very surprised that you didn't know there is no LSD in the E60, only in the M5. Now I know why you didn't understood what I said, and why I didn't understood your problem with it.
I know that the reality is different. It's kinda sad.
I was very surprised that you didn't know there is no LSD in the E60, only in the M5. Now I know why you didn't understood what I said, and why I didn't understood your problem with it.
02-02-2005, 09:24 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by urbo73' date='Feb 1 2005, 10:01 PM
Can BMW please get rid of the DTC HACK and give us a real LSD? Otherwise, I stand by what I said earlier which most didn't like: The E60 is a sedan - not a sports car.? That's the M class like I said before as well.
You see, RWD cars, if designed properly are not very bad to drive in the winter. But no LSD is bad on this expensive a car. As is Active Steering and the DTC hack to cover the fact that there is no LSD. But because of all this garbage, people say now that the E60s are tough to drive in the winter. It shouldn't be that way. And YES I CAN drive my car in snow, but it's a pain to keep correcting.
You see, RWD cars, if designed properly are not very bad to drive in the winter. But no LSD is bad on this expensive a car. As is Active Steering and the DTC hack to cover the fact that there is no LSD. But because of all this garbage, people say now that the E60s are tough to drive in the winter. It shouldn't be that way. And YES I CAN drive my car in snow, but it's a pain to keep correcting.
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At first I agree about LSD, we should have it. If not stock then option.
Second, how many of us really needs it?
Thirdly, all this is about compromising, unfortunately suits tell the way.
Skaffa
02-02-2005, 10:00 AM
#43
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Hi,
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/index.htm
I hope the link above can help understanding the situation with dsc and dtc,
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/index.htm
I hope the link above can help understanding the situation with dsc and dtc,
02-02-2005, 12:18 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Ilyam5' date='Feb 2 2005, 01:09 PM
[quote name='Mercy' date='Feb 2 2005, 11:27 AM']I always thought everyone hated LSD and that it sucked. I for one, I'm really happy that it's not on our cars. No wonder when I disabled the whole DSC system I launch out like a rocket.
PS: I don't drive my car in the snow.?
PS: I don't drive my car in the snow.?
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Hey, Mercy
You are mixing things up. Open differentials - that's what everybody hates. Limited slip differentials improve your traction and make launches much faster.
Read the link
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
during aggressive launch you need to have all systems off (DSC and DTC, since little wheelspin will improve traction and warm up the tires). There are very few surfaces when left and right wheel have the same traction (unless you are on the dragstrip). Even then the smallest amounts of sand, oil, water will reduce traction on one of the wheels. 545 with open dif will just spin this wheel silly and smoke it an not move.
LSD equipped cars will transfer torque to the wheel with grip and launch much faster.
Launch control in M3 SMG and new M5 work this way (both have LSD) with pretty impressive results.
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[/quote]Thanks for clearing things up, you are absolutely right about Open Differential.
I remember (I was 17 yrs old) having my old Trans-Am up on the lift, putting it on drive and giving it some gas. I said to myself what gives only one wheel is moving, I think something is broken and then I notice the non-moving wheel started to move opposite dirrection after giving it one good kick (I was Mad).
02-02-2005, 12:36 PM
#45
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Electronic diffs are the way of the future, when implemented correctly of course!
BEst example, the new ferrari f430, with eDIFF, which according to every review i have read is the heart and soul of the car and what makes it so great.
With a mechanical LSD you have only one set percentage of lockign and slip whereas with an electronic one, its almost infinately variable.
BEst example, the new ferrari f430, with eDIFF, which according to every review i have read is the heart and soul of the car and what makes it so great.
With a mechanical LSD you have only one set percentage of lockign and slip whereas with an electronic one, its almost infinately variable.
02-02-2005, 03:06 PM
#46
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This is a great discussion. I have to side with BMW technology, however. I have driven a 330 performance edition on a track, and think the DSC and DTC are valuable aids to the average driver. Let's face it, the 5er is a performance luxury sedan, not a sports car. I think it outperforms everything in its class, but you cannot compare it to what an M3, a 911 etc. can do.
I drove in tight circles on a wet surface, and it was very easy to oversteer the car with a hard press of the accelerator with DSC and DTC off. It was impossible to do with both on, however. The technology cut engine power and selectively braked. Now, if you are a very skilled, experienced driver, you can correct for oversteer and understeer, but that takes a cool head and lots of skill. I don't think the average driver could react fast enough. It is with understeer and oversteer that I find the DSC to be most useful.
Now, what is the purpose of the DTC button? I think, practically speaking, it allows the average driver to have a little fun, to spin the rear tires a little on hard acceleration. There is nothing wrong with that.
DTC and DSC are safety aids, and it is partly what allows us BMW owners to be better drivers. I can do things easily in a BMW that takes more skill in another car.
There are some out there who are expert drivers, with racing experience, etc. You can do whatever you want with the car. But for everyone else, I feel it would be irresponsible to drive without these aids unless you are in a controlled situation. I think safety should be the most important priority.
I drove in tight circles on a wet surface, and it was very easy to oversteer the car with a hard press of the accelerator with DSC and DTC off. It was impossible to do with both on, however. The technology cut engine power and selectively braked. Now, if you are a very skilled, experienced driver, you can correct for oversteer and understeer, but that takes a cool head and lots of skill. I don't think the average driver could react fast enough. It is with understeer and oversteer that I find the DSC to be most useful.
Now, what is the purpose of the DTC button? I think, practically speaking, it allows the average driver to have a little fun, to spin the rear tires a little on hard acceleration. There is nothing wrong with that.
DTC and DSC are safety aids, and it is partly what allows us BMW owners to be better drivers. I can do things easily in a BMW that takes more skill in another car.
There are some out there who are expert drivers, with racing experience, etc. You can do whatever you want with the car. But for everyone else, I feel it would be irresponsible to drive without these aids unless you are in a controlled situation. I think safety should be the most important priority.
02-02-2005, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by KenTO' date='Feb 3 2005, 01:06 AM
Now, what is the purpose of the DTC button?? I think, practically speaking, it allows the average driver to have a little fun, to spin the rear tires a little on hard acceleration.? There is nothing wrong with that.
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02-02-2005, 03:14 PM
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Yes, I agree, but it does allow me to have a little fun sometimes. 
02-02-2005, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KenTO' date='Feb 3 2005, 01:14 AM
Yes, I agree, but it does allow me to have a little fun sometimes.?
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