FormerE30Owner

And who or what makes you the judge of what is misinformation on this forum?

Respectfully, Bob P.

BimmerFan52

YES - BUT YOU'VE ONLY GOT PART OF IT - If the car or truck engine doesn't reach operating temperature and the engine is turned off, the WATER VAPOR will condense into the oil, and will stay in the oil.

Look at a standard oil lab report. There are separate measurements for water and antifreeze.

Unfortunately, you are ignoring what is COMMON KNOWLEDGE in the transportation industry.

While the article I cited was written in 1925 and tolerances in engines have certainly improved, the basic function of the engine and the existence of blow by has not.

I noticed you didn't respond to the other citation.

And here is another article written by an industry professional in 2007. Note section on water.
Four Lethal Diesel Engine Oil Contaminants

You are adopting a position that is untenable.

FormerE30Owner

I am not disputing the fact that high levels of water are destructive to oil and engine. What I am disputing is the fact that the small amount of water that is present due to some condensation does not remain in the oil at normal operating temperatures, therefore, is not harmful. It is very rare to find large amounts of water in an oil sample without glycol at the same time. In fact, if the sample is taken while the engine is at operating temperaure, you might not find any water in the oil, but you might find some glycol, if there is a leak. If the leak is large, of course both water and glycol will be found, even at opearing temperaures. Obviously, if there is no coolant leak, you will not find water in the oil at engine operating temperaures, even if there was some condensation at start up. This is not speculation on my part, but learned through mpore than 40 yrs experience in operating chemical plants which were equiped with highly sophisticated internal combustion engines and turbines using complicated cooling and oil lubrication systems. Oil sampling was and is standard and we had better know our Tribology and signs of impending engine failures. Incidently, one of the plants I managed produced the ester which was used as the base stock for Castrol synthetic lubricants.

The OP (and others) was indicating that perhaps the signs that he saw were due to condensation and I simply posited that this was wishful thinking, since the small amount of condensation that might be present would not show up on a dip stick, but have evaporated. The milky residue evidenced, however, is not indicative of condensed water, but of glycol.

BTW, what is called common knowledge is not always correct. After all, it is common knowledge that heavier objects fall faster in a vacuum, but we know that to be incorrect!

With respect.

Bob P.

BimmerFan52

I guess we are now treading water. My original response was to your contention that the only way water can get into the closed oil system is through a leak from a higher pressure water coolant system". You now seem to acknowledge that yes, blowby from combustion happens.

But if I understand correctly, now your contention is that modern engines don't experience difficulties with blowby gases, and as soon as the engine reaches operating temperature that this water completely disappears and everything is fine. The service bulletin below from BMW warning of water freezing in the CCV seems to suggest otherwise.

You compare your experience of lubricants in process manufacturing to automobiles but that is hardly a good comparison as process machinery can run weeks or months without shutting down, and is hardly a parallel example to a 1 mile trip in cold weather to the drug store and then putting the car in the garage for a week.

If the short trips are the only thing a car experiences for extended periods (days, weeks, months) a significant amount of water can accumulate and sit in the oil for an extended period of time. Some mechanics in Canada relate (albeit extreme) stories of water that has settled to the bottom of the sump and seeing 8-10 ounces run out when the drain plug is pulled (without a leaking head gasket).

Having experience in the manufacture of esters, you certainly know that contact with water can break down esters back into their constituent alcohol and acid parts. And the example of another additive that can be "water stripped" is the one we have been discussing where the zinc dithio diphosphate contained in anti-oxidant and anti-wear additives can quickly emulsify into "mayonnaise". Once this damage to the oil has occurred, bringing the engine oil up to operating temperature will not undo it.

You could be correct in your guess that the OP is on the way to a new head gasket, but there are also examples of the existence of mayonnaise that an oil change and a change in driving habits has corrected.

KyleB

Judd Hirsch. Just got off the phone with him. He agrees that condensation on an oil cap isn't necessarily an indication of head gasket failure. He also wants a yoo-hoo. I told him maybe tomorrow, I'm fresh out at the moment.

FormerE30Owner

Perhaps,

I might have oversimplified my case in my original statements, but I simply wanted to dispell a common myth about 'condensation in my oil system'.

Just like the common myth of 'warped brake rotors'.

Respectfully, Bob P.