Detailed update on Sirius on E60
04-06-2004, 08:35 PM
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I have been using Sirius at home and on a non BMW car for a year and I love the service. I like the programming, the absence of announcers on music channels, the wide choice of programming and the sound quality. I will be picking up my 545i with Navigation Professional (#609) in 23 days and have trying to figure out if my car will or won?t be able to be upgraded to Sirius at some point in the future. After 15+ calls to my dealer and BMW NA, I still couldn?t get a clear answer, so I decided to obtain and read various BMW engineering and service documents on the E60. Attached is a summary of my findings?
1) MOST Interface
All entertainment systems (NAV, audio, TV Module, DVD Changer, Telephone, HUD, CD changer?) send their Audio/Video signals to the cockpit using the MOST optical interface (two fiber optic connector {in/out} per device). The MOST interface is a "ring" which means that all devices must be interconnected to form a circle. In most E60s, the MOST interface is limited to the dashboard area of the car. But cars that have MOST accessories in the trunk (i.e. Premium Audio Amplifier, Telephone/BMW Assist?) have a MOST junction connector on the left wheel wall for connecting all trunk modules. This junction is connected to the HUD and main audio/communication computer in the center console.
2) Audio & Communication Computers (M-ASK or CCC)
Behind the in-dash CD player in the center console is located the audio/communication computer (a real PC). There are 2 versions of this computer, the basic one called M-ASK is the one that has only one CD player on cars without professional navigation. The second one called CCC for cars with navigation has two in-dash drives one for CD and one for DVD. This computer is connected to the MOST interface and is responsible for all audio/video (radio, CD...), Idrive, Telephone, Voice Recognition and Navigation capabilities. This computers also acts as gateway between the MOST interface and the other interfaces that connect all control units in the car. Because of this gateway capability, BMW dealers now use the MOST interface (there is a dealer connector in the glove box) to upload new software up to 60% faster into all of the control units of the car. A fully loaded E60 has about 80Mb of software in its various control units, using traditional interfaces (like the OBD connector near the hood release in the driver's footwell) it would take 4.5 hours to upload new software into the E60.
3) Antennas
The ?Shark Fin? antenna on the E60 includes 5 antennas: two telephone antennas tuned to US frequencies 800/1900Mhz (one for your phone, one for Assist), one GPS antenna and two Sirius antennas, one for satellite signal one for terrestrial retransmission. Please note that the BMW specs note that the satellite antenna was specifically tuned for the Sirius frequency range 2320-2332Mhz vs the XM range 2332-2345. There are 5 connectors in the ceiling under the shark fin (one for each antenna). The documents I read implied that there are currently two versions of the shark fin (the US version, as previously described and the International ? with telephone antennas tuned for Non-US GSM frequencies 900/1800Mhz and no Sirius Antennas). Like most previous BMWs, the AM/FM antennas are built into the rear window. There are four FM antennas to ensure optimal reception and the radio tuner (in the Audio Computer continually selects the one with best reception).
4) Sirius Implementation on the E60:
On the E60, the Sirius module is responsible for decoding the Sirius transmission, validating subscription, and sending via MOST the audio signal (in digital form) and program information to the CCC or M-ASK computer. The CCC and MASK computers are then responsible for audio processing, User Interface related to operating Sirius. The dependency on MOST as a communication interface between the Sirius Tuner and the Audio Processor (CCC/M-ASK) makes it virtually impossible to use an aftermarket Sirius tuner if you don?t want to give up on a digital connection between the tuner and the amplifier.
5) Compatibility Problems between Navigation and Sirius
When BMW started to produce the E60 with Navigation, it discovered that the CCC computer, unlike the M-ASK computer (cars w/o NAV) has a compatibility with the Sirius Module. Rumors claim that this problem is related to the MOST communication between the units and that other car manufacturers who use MOST (like Mercedes) are facing similar problems. BMW claims that it will resolve these problems through software updates in the October 2004 timeframe. Realizing that it didn?t make much sense to ask customers to pay for pre wiring ($75) for a feature that might not be available for close to another year, BMW waived the $75 fee on vehicles produced from January through mid March with NAV (#609) and Sirius Pre-Wiring (#693). On march 19th, BMW AG actually deleted all orders of option #693 on cars with NAV. No one at BMW has yet been able to tell me if cars produced with NAV after that date are or aren?t pre-wired. My car was built on April 2nd and it looks like the only way I?ll find out is by disassembling the car when I take delivery.
6) Pre Wiring for Sirius
To support the Sirius Tuner, the following connector are (1) power connector (traditional electric wires with power signals), (2) two antenna signal cables (2 small coax cables) from shark fin to transport the two antenna signals required and (3) MOST connector (2 optical fiber). I believe that satellite prep (option #693) consists of bringing these connectors to the location of the Sirius Tuner (mounted above the left wheel on the trunk wall).
7) Retrofit without pre-wiring
The power harness should be relatively easy to retrofit (the fuse terminal that powers convenience accessories in located in the trunk (right side near battery). The cables from the shark fin should also be relatively easy to retrofit. The MOST connection would be very difficult without the trunk MOST junction connect, but because all US bound E60s have at least on MOST trunk-based accessory ( the TCU = Telematic Control Unit = BMW Assist) located on the rear left wheel wall, all US E60s have a trunk MOST junction making the MOST connection the easiest part of a retrofit (small 20cm optical cable from junction to Sirius Tuner). Bottom line, even without pre-wiring, a retrofit should be possible with a few hours of labor and a few cables.
8) After market Sirius/XM Tuners
If sound quality isn?t a key criteria for you, you can get a Sirius or XM Tuner that will transmit its audio signal by modulating on the radio antenna. This will require a separate user-interface to be installed on your dashboard, keep in mind that removing the CCC/M-ASK computer is not an option. If you take that path, make sure that your car stereo installer is very good and intercepts the FM signal from the 4 FM antennas AFTER it has been multiplexed.
1) MOST Interface
All entertainment systems (NAV, audio, TV Module, DVD Changer, Telephone, HUD, CD changer?) send their Audio/Video signals to the cockpit using the MOST optical interface (two fiber optic connector {in/out} per device). The MOST interface is a "ring" which means that all devices must be interconnected to form a circle. In most E60s, the MOST interface is limited to the dashboard area of the car. But cars that have MOST accessories in the trunk (i.e. Premium Audio Amplifier, Telephone/BMW Assist?) have a MOST junction connector on the left wheel wall for connecting all trunk modules. This junction is connected to the HUD and main audio/communication computer in the center console.
2) Audio & Communication Computers (M-ASK or CCC)
Behind the in-dash CD player in the center console is located the audio/communication computer (a real PC). There are 2 versions of this computer, the basic one called M-ASK is the one that has only one CD player on cars without professional navigation. The second one called CCC for cars with navigation has two in-dash drives one for CD and one for DVD. This computer is connected to the MOST interface and is responsible for all audio/video (radio, CD...), Idrive, Telephone, Voice Recognition and Navigation capabilities. This computers also acts as gateway between the MOST interface and the other interfaces that connect all control units in the car. Because of this gateway capability, BMW dealers now use the MOST interface (there is a dealer connector in the glove box) to upload new software up to 60% faster into all of the control units of the car. A fully loaded E60 has about 80Mb of software in its various control units, using traditional interfaces (like the OBD connector near the hood release in the driver's footwell) it would take 4.5 hours to upload new software into the E60.
3) Antennas
The ?Shark Fin? antenna on the E60 includes 5 antennas: two telephone antennas tuned to US frequencies 800/1900Mhz (one for your phone, one for Assist), one GPS antenna and two Sirius antennas, one for satellite signal one for terrestrial retransmission. Please note that the BMW specs note that the satellite antenna was specifically tuned for the Sirius frequency range 2320-2332Mhz vs the XM range 2332-2345. There are 5 connectors in the ceiling under the shark fin (one for each antenna). The documents I read implied that there are currently two versions of the shark fin (the US version, as previously described and the International ? with telephone antennas tuned for Non-US GSM frequencies 900/1800Mhz and no Sirius Antennas). Like most previous BMWs, the AM/FM antennas are built into the rear window. There are four FM antennas to ensure optimal reception and the radio tuner (in the Audio Computer continually selects the one with best reception).
4) Sirius Implementation on the E60:
On the E60, the Sirius module is responsible for decoding the Sirius transmission, validating subscription, and sending via MOST the audio signal (in digital form) and program information to the CCC or M-ASK computer. The CCC and MASK computers are then responsible for audio processing, User Interface related to operating Sirius. The dependency on MOST as a communication interface between the Sirius Tuner and the Audio Processor (CCC/M-ASK) makes it virtually impossible to use an aftermarket Sirius tuner if you don?t want to give up on a digital connection between the tuner and the amplifier.
5) Compatibility Problems between Navigation and Sirius
When BMW started to produce the E60 with Navigation, it discovered that the CCC computer, unlike the M-ASK computer (cars w/o NAV) has a compatibility with the Sirius Module. Rumors claim that this problem is related to the MOST communication between the units and that other car manufacturers who use MOST (like Mercedes) are facing similar problems. BMW claims that it will resolve these problems through software updates in the October 2004 timeframe. Realizing that it didn?t make much sense to ask customers to pay for pre wiring ($75) for a feature that might not be available for close to another year, BMW waived the $75 fee on vehicles produced from January through mid March with NAV (#609) and Sirius Pre-Wiring (#693). On march 19th, BMW AG actually deleted all orders of option #693 on cars with NAV. No one at BMW has yet been able to tell me if cars produced with NAV after that date are or aren?t pre-wired. My car was built on April 2nd and it looks like the only way I?ll find out is by disassembling the car when I take delivery.
6) Pre Wiring for Sirius
To support the Sirius Tuner, the following connector are (1) power connector (traditional electric wires with power signals), (2) two antenna signal cables (2 small coax cables) from shark fin to transport the two antenna signals required and (3) MOST connector (2 optical fiber). I believe that satellite prep (option #693) consists of bringing these connectors to the location of the Sirius Tuner (mounted above the left wheel on the trunk wall).
7) Retrofit without pre-wiring
The power harness should be relatively easy to retrofit (the fuse terminal that powers convenience accessories in located in the trunk (right side near battery). The cables from the shark fin should also be relatively easy to retrofit. The MOST connection would be very difficult without the trunk MOST junction connect, but because all US bound E60s have at least on MOST trunk-based accessory ( the TCU = Telematic Control Unit = BMW Assist) located on the rear left wheel wall, all US E60s have a trunk MOST junction making the MOST connection the easiest part of a retrofit (small 20cm optical cable from junction to Sirius Tuner). Bottom line, even without pre-wiring, a retrofit should be possible with a few hours of labor and a few cables.
8) After market Sirius/XM Tuners
If sound quality isn?t a key criteria for you, you can get a Sirius or XM Tuner that will transmit its audio signal by modulating on the radio antenna. This will require a separate user-interface to be installed on your dashboard, keep in mind that removing the CCC/M-ASK computer is not an option. If you take that path, make sure that your car stereo installer is very good and intercepts the FM signal from the 4 FM antennas AFTER it has been multiplexed.
04-07-2004, 04:30 AM
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Awesome post.
Probably more detail in there than BMW would like the average consumer to know.
I see you're picking up ED on 4/29. So am I. I guess I might see you at the delivery center. We'll be picking up first thing after the plane lands (at 8am), so we'll be there around 9:30 or 10am.
Thanks for the info.
-MrB
Probably more detail in there than BMW would like the average consumer to know.
I see you're picking up ED on 4/29. So am I. I guess I might see you at the delivery center. We'll be picking up first thing after the plane lands (at 8am), so we'll be there around 9:30 or 10am.
Thanks for the info.
-MrB
04-07-2004, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fmusbmw' date='Apr 7 2004, 04:35 AM
3) Antennas
The ?Shark Fin? antenna on the E60 includes 5 antennas: two telephone antennas tuned to US frequencies 800/1900Mhz (one for your phone, one for Assist), one GPS antenna and two Sirius antennas, one for satellite signal one for terrestrial retransmission. Please note that the BMW specs note that the satellite antenna was specifically tuned for the Sirius frequency range 2320-2332Mhz vs the XM range 2332-2345. There are 5 connectors in the ceiling under the shark fin (one for each antenna). The documents I read implied that there are currently two versions of the shark fin (the US version, as previously described and the International ? with telephone antennas tuned for Non-US GSM frequencies 900/1800Mhz and no Sirius Antennas). Like most previous BMWs, the AM/FM antennas are built into the rear window. There are four FM antennas to ensure optimal reception and the radio tuner (in the Audio Computer continually selects the one with best reception).
The ?Shark Fin? antenna on the E60 includes 5 antennas: two telephone antennas tuned to US frequencies 800/1900Mhz (one for your phone, one for Assist), one GPS antenna and two Sirius antennas, one for satellite signal one for terrestrial retransmission. Please note that the BMW specs note that the satellite antenna was specifically tuned for the Sirius frequency range 2320-2332Mhz vs the XM range 2332-2345. There are 5 connectors in the ceiling under the shark fin (one for each antenna). The documents I read implied that there are currently two versions of the shark fin (the US version, as previously described and the International ? with telephone antennas tuned for Non-US GSM frequencies 900/1800Mhz and no Sirius Antennas). Like most previous BMWs, the AM/FM antennas are built into the rear window. There are four FM antennas to ensure optimal reception and the radio tuner (in the Audio Computer continually selects the one with best reception).
Do you know whether the "Shark Fin" contains the GPS antenna even on cars without Nav? It would be nice if it was possible to wire-up and use this antenna for my PDA based NAV-system and the GPS based alarmsystem I would like to mount in the car...
04-07-2004, 05:38 AM
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As I said on another forum, great post!
Now, if you could do the same for the Bluetooth saga, we'd all have nothing to talk about except for how great these cars are!
Thanks again!
Now, if you could do the same for the Bluetooth saga, we'd all have nothing to talk about except for how great these cars are!
Thanks again!
04-07-2004, 06:11 AM
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Great post! I have a question that is a little bit OT:
Do you know whether the "Shark Fin" contains the GPS antenna even on cars without Nav? It would be nice if it was possible to wire-up and use this antenna for my PDA based NAV-system and the GPS based alarmsystem I would like to mount in the car...
Do you know whether the "Shark Fin" contains the GPS antenna even on cars without Nav? It would be nice if it was possible to wire-up and use this antenna for my PDA based NAV-system and the GPS based alarmsystem I would like to mount in the car...
04-07-2004, 06:13 AM
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As I said on another forum, great post!
Now, if you could do the same for the Bluetooth saga, we'd all have nothing to talk about except for how great these cars are!
Thanks again!
Now, if you could do the same for the Bluetooth saga, we'd all have nothing to talk about except for how great these cars are!
Thanks again!
04-07-2004, 06:15 AM
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Awesome post.
Probably more detail in there than BMW would like the average consumer to know.
I see you're picking up ED on 4/29. So am I. I guess I might see you at the delivery center. We'll be picking up first thing after the plane lands (at 8am), so we'll be there around 9:30 or 10am.
Thanks for the info.
-MrB
Probably more detail in there than BMW would like the average consumer to know.
I see you're picking up ED on 4/29. So am I. I guess I might see you at the delivery center. We'll be picking up first thing after the plane lands (at 8am), so we'll be there around 9:30 or 10am.
Thanks for the info.
-MrB
Regards,
Francois
04-07-2004, 04:30 PM
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BMW published its technical documentation under a service call BMW TIS (Tech Info System). The system intended for dealerships and mechanics is loaded with fabulous information (service bulletins, technical training, troubleshooting...). The material is published on CDRoms and DVDs (look on Ebay for BMW TIS 2004/02) and online at BMWTIS.com for a fee.
04-07-2004, 05:45 PM
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Thanks. I'm familiar with TIS, I just wasn't sure what your source was.
Did you buy the disks or are you someone with access to it through your employer?
Did you buy the disks or are you someone with access to it through your employer?