Controversial - bigger 5-ers need Quattro
12-10-2006, 08:07 AM
#11
Contributors
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,186
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My Ride: Jan 2006 E63 650i Sport
.
Options:
Sport version (includes: sport-seats, sport-suspension, M-Sport steering wheel, Anthracite headliner, Shaddow Line), Saphire Black, Black Dakota Leather, Anthracite Maple Wood trim, Steptronic Auto, Xenons, NAV-Professional with Voice Control, TV, CD-Changer, Bluetooth, Logic7, Head-up Display, Comfort Access, Seat Heating front, Auto Dimming & Folding Mirrors, Extended Auto Air Conditioning, PDC.
.
Mods:
Spacers 5mm front & 15mm rear
.
Wheels:
20" Alpina Softline (Classic) with Dunlop Sport Maxx non-RFT (255/35/20 & 285/30/20)
Originally Posted by KAF' post='365677' date='Dec 10 2006, 05:51 PM
You have half a point, but proper winter tyres are much better on cold wet roads than summer, the compound is much softer.
Not the same level of grip as 4wd , I agree, but a huge improvement over normal summer tyres.
Did you not see the Z6 v Audi TT Quatro test on 5th gear last week.
When they did an acceleration test on a wet bit of track the Audi left the Z6 off the start.
When they repeated the test on a dry track the Z6 left the Audi way back off the start.
4wd is only better in the wet, in the dry RWD with a balanced set up wins.
Not the same level of grip as 4wd , I agree, but a huge improvement over normal summer tyres.
Did you not see the Z6 v Audi TT Quatro test on 5th gear last week.
When they did an acceleration test on a wet bit of track the Audi left the Z6 off the start.
When they repeated the test on a dry track the Z6 left the Audi way back off the start.
4wd is only better in the wet, in the dry RWD with a balanced set up wins.
...what's a "Z6" ?? FWD / RWD / which company manufactures it?
Cheers
12-10-2006, 08:25 AM
#12
Members
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2006 BMW M5, Silverstone with black extended leather, brushed aluminium trim, Nav Pro, Logic 7, PDC, 35 % tint.
As others have alluded to, proper winter tires are the key.
AWD is only useful for getting going in slippery conditions, the idea of more traction in manouvering is false. Look at track times or autocross times in a similary powered RWD vs. AWD car, the RWD car is almost always invariably faster.
AWD (or 4WD) does not assist in turning, or stopping. This is where most accidents happen in slippery conditions. Turning or stopping is all dependent on the tires' contact patches and grip on the road. Your occurence of oversteer was completely based on loss of traction.
That being said, I do feel that with traction control, my car is definitely slower to get moving.
I live in Canada and we see a lot of snow. I have a very powerful car and I do a lot of driving, and I have never oversteered as much as you have, with the car turning 180 degrees.
I always use dedicated winter tires, and IMHO I have found that this combined with advanced driver's training I took with BMW was all that I needed for proper winter driving. I don't need AWD, it would take all the fun out of my days at the track.
Others feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
AWD is only useful for getting going in slippery conditions, the idea of more traction in manouvering is false. Look at track times or autocross times in a similary powered RWD vs. AWD car, the RWD car is almost always invariably faster.
AWD (or 4WD) does not assist in turning, or stopping. This is where most accidents happen in slippery conditions. Turning or stopping is all dependent on the tires' contact patches and grip on the road. Your occurence of oversteer was completely based on loss of traction.
That being said, I do feel that with traction control, my car is definitely slower to get moving.
I live in Canada and we see a lot of snow. I have a very powerful car and I do a lot of driving, and I have never oversteered as much as you have, with the car turning 180 degrees.
I always use dedicated winter tires, and IMHO I have found that this combined with advanced driver's training I took with BMW was all that I needed for proper winter driving. I don't need AWD, it would take all the fun out of my days at the track.
Others feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
12-10-2006, 08:27 AM
#13
Members
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2006 BMW M5, Silverstone with black extended leather, brushed aluminium trim, Nav Pro, Logic 7, PDC, 35 % tint.
Sorry, the above was meant to be posted at a different post. I have egg on my face.
12-10-2006, 10:57 AM
#15
Members
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FK4 UK
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 05 530D Sport E61
I am convinced that tyres will make a huge diffrence, my last car was a 4.7HO Grand Cherokee, in the cold and damp it would start to squirm as it tried to find grip at any of the four wheels.
This is my first winter in a non 4WD for well over 10 years and yes ive just ordered a set of winter tyres so I look forward to my next trip to Glenshee which according to the weather forcast wont be long away!
This is my first winter in a non 4WD for well over 10 years and yes ive just ordered a set of winter tyres so I look forward to my next trip to Glenshee which according to the weather forcast wont be long away!
12-10-2006, 11:19 AM
#16
Senior Members
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: '05 545i - scheduled for ED pickup in Munich on 7/22!
get some proper tires and put sandbags in your trunk (boot).
if that's not enough, get some driving lessons from those crazy scandinavians!
if that's not enough, get some driving lessons from those crazy scandinavians!
12-10-2006, 11:38 AM
#17
Senior Members
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Posts: 6,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Summer tires simply don't work in temperatures below 5-7 degrees Celsius. If it's RF it's even worse. If the road is a bit dump then you simply beg for grip. I found in the last few days DSC intervening very agressive to keep the tail in check at temperatures of 2 degrees and a bit of moisture on the pavement. It's almost like on ice.
PS: And no, real fun in only RWD!!! Sorry but AWD is simply boring compared to RWD. In fact i find FWD even more entertaining than AWD.
PS: And no, real fun in only RWD!!! Sorry but AWD is simply boring compared to RWD. In fact i find FWD even more entertaining than AWD.
12-10-2006, 01:18 PM
#18
Contributors
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire UK
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F11 535i M-Sport,, Silver, Black Leather, LED Adaptive headlights
Model Year: 2015
Engine: N55
Originally Posted by xBMWx' post='365679' date='Dec 10 2006, 05:07 PM
...what's a "Z6" ?? FWD / RWD / which company manufactures it?
Cheers
Cheers
Sorry typo, BMW Z4
12-11-2006, 06:43 AM
#19
Members
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Munich Area, Germany
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: Soon to be delivered 523iA
Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='365765' date='Dec 10 2006, 09:38 PM
Summer tires simply don't work in temperatures below 5-7 degrees Celsius. If it's RF it's even worse. If the road is a bit dump then you simply beg for grip. I found in the last few days DSC intervening very agressive to keep the tail in check at temperatures of 2 degrees and a bit of moisture on the pavement. It's almost like on ice.
12-11-2006, 07:27 AM
#20
Contributors
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire UK
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F11 535i M-Sport,, Silver, Black Leather, LED Adaptive headlights
Model Year: 2015
Engine: N55
Originally Posted by F?nfer' post='366047' date='Dec 11 2006, 03:43 PM
I can only second this. I would of course assume that the original poster was not using summer tyres, because around here, everybody drives with dedicated winter tyres, no matter if they have RWD, FWD or AWD.
He has summer tyres.
In the UK winter tyres are as rare as hens teeth. Our winters tend to be mild and damp so nobody thinks they need them.
But temps often drop below 7c and as the roads are usually wet summer tyres start losing grip.
I put winters on mine this year for the first time and had real problems getting the tyres.
Few are imported into the UK, I managed to get some conti's wintercontact, the only others around temd to be Vredestien.
As soon as we get 2mm of snow the whole country grinds to a halt.
Certainly up in the frozen north..................Scotland
There is a very strong case for winter tyres.
We Brits need a bit of education I think. Even the tyre dealer was suprised that somebody wanted winter tyres, everybody thinks they are only for places that get lots of snow.