Amplifier question
08-12-2014 | 12:43 PM
#1
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: connecticut
My Ride: 06 530 xi
Amplifier question
Has anybody used an a/m amp to power factory speakers in logic 7 system to get a little more volume?
Just thinking out loud but any info will be greatly appreciated.:d
Just thinking out loud but any info will be greatly appreciated.:d
08-12-2014 | 07:37 PM
#2
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 757
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From: Chestermere AB
My Ride: 535xi
Model Year: 2008
You need the L7 to be louder? I can make my ears bleed with mine - can't imagine needing any more power. Maybe a powered sub in the trunk to augment the lower octave?
08-14-2014 | 06:53 AM
#3
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Joined: Jun 2014
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From: CT
My Ride: 2004 BMW E60
up!
https://5series.net/forums/e60-discu...2008-a-139180/
08-15-2014 | 10:10 AM
#4
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Spokane, WA USA
The Logic7 system uses a MOST bus digital connection from the main CCC or CIC unit up front to the 9-channel amplifier in the trunk. The amplifier outputs consist of:
40 watts x 7 channels at 2 ohms to run all of the 4" and 1" mids/highs in the car.
and 70 watts x 2 channels at 4 ohms to run the 8" woofers under each front seat.
You could use Technic's L7 harness to extract these high level signals from the factory amplifier and run them into amplifiers with high level inputs, but you need to find amps that have the ability to accept that much power into the high level inputs. I believe most are designed to deal with the typical 10-25 watts that most factory systems produce. Furthermore you need nine channels of amplifier power to keep the L7 system completely intact, which means you will need multiple amplifiers. I'm not aware of any single chassis 9-channel amps that produce more power than the factory L7 amplifier.
Beyond the consideration for using multiple amps, consider the fact that doubling the power of all your speakers in the system is only going to give you a small bump in output (+3db). Quadrupling the power will give you a noticeable bump (+6db in theory, but doubt you'll see the gain before power compression) in output, but then you are talking about amplifiers that produce 160 watts to each channel at 2 ohms along with an amplifier to drive the under seat woofers to the tune of 280 watts per channel. I can tell you now that the factory drivers won't last long at these power levels - especially the under seat woofers.
How much are you willing to replace? How much are you willing to spend?
40 watts x 7 channels at 2 ohms to run all of the 4" and 1" mids/highs in the car.
and 70 watts x 2 channels at 4 ohms to run the 8" woofers under each front seat.
You could use Technic's L7 harness to extract these high level signals from the factory amplifier and run them into amplifiers with high level inputs, but you need to find amps that have the ability to accept that much power into the high level inputs. I believe most are designed to deal with the typical 10-25 watts that most factory systems produce. Furthermore you need nine channels of amplifier power to keep the L7 system completely intact, which means you will need multiple amplifiers. I'm not aware of any single chassis 9-channel amps that produce more power than the factory L7 amplifier.
Beyond the consideration for using multiple amps, consider the fact that doubling the power of all your speakers in the system is only going to give you a small bump in output (+3db). Quadrupling the power will give you a noticeable bump (+6db in theory, but doubt you'll see the gain before power compression) in output, but then you are talking about amplifiers that produce 160 watts to each channel at 2 ohms along with an amplifier to drive the under seat woofers to the tune of 280 watts per channel. I can tell you now that the factory drivers won't last long at these power levels - especially the under seat woofers.
How much are you willing to replace? How much are you willing to spend?
08-16-2014 | 08:54 PM
#6
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
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From: Ontario California
My Ride: 2005 545
In my opinion the logic 7 sounds kinda muddy and not very clear. So I added a Audio Controll Concert Series EQ . made a huge difference and really cleared up the sound , highs are really crisp and mids sound tight.
I went with a 500 1/c amp pushing a Cerwin Vega 10 inch woofer with a ported bandpass enclosure that I ported into the cab . So with all three amps running havent had any issues or problems
So you will be fine with a little added power to your factory speakes ..
Last edited by H F; 08-16-2014 at 09:04 PM.
08-21-2014 | 03:55 PM
#8
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
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From: Ontario California
My Ride: 2005 545
Hooked up the EQ thru the low input jacks on the 300 4/c amp .Both amps and EQ are in the trunk .. I actually made a rack thats on the right side of my enclosure on the battery side of the trunk . Holds both amps and the EQ . All connections are in the trunk.
08-25-2014 | 11:44 AM
#9
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Joined: Jun 2011
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From: US
My Ride: E60 550i
Model Year: 2010
The Logic7 system uses a MOST bus digital connection from the main CCC or CIC unit up front to the 9-channel amplifier in the trunk. The amplifier outputs consist of:
40 watts x 7 channels at 2 ohms to run all of the 4" and 1" mids/highs in the car.
and 70 watts x 2 channels at 4 ohms to run the 8" woofers under each front seat.
You could use Technic's L7 harness to extract these high level signals from the factory amplifier and run them into amplifiers with high level inputs, but you need to find amps that have the ability to accept that much power into the high level inputs. I believe most are designed to deal with the typical 10-25 watts that most factory systems produce. Furthermore you need nine channels of amplifier power to keep the L7 system completely intact, which means you will need multiple amplifiers. I'm not aware of any single chassis 9-channel amps that produce more power than the factory L7 amplifier.
Beyond the consideration for using multiple amps, consider the fact that doubling the power of all your speakers in the system is only going to give you a small bump in output (+3db). Quadrupling the power will give you a noticeable bump (+6db in theory, but doubt you'll see the gain before power compression) in output, but then you are talking about amplifiers that produce 160 watts to each channel at 2 ohms along with an amplifier to drive the under seat woofers to the tune of 280 watts per channel. I can tell you now that the factory drivers won't last long at these power levels - especially the under seat woofers.
How much are you willing to replace? How much are you willing to spend?
40 watts x 7 channels at 2 ohms to run all of the 4" and 1" mids/highs in the car.
and 70 watts x 2 channels at 4 ohms to run the 8" woofers under each front seat.
You could use Technic's L7 harness to extract these high level signals from the factory amplifier and run them into amplifiers with high level inputs, but you need to find amps that have the ability to accept that much power into the high level inputs. I believe most are designed to deal with the typical 10-25 watts that most factory systems produce. Furthermore you need nine channels of amplifier power to keep the L7 system completely intact, which means you will need multiple amplifiers. I'm not aware of any single chassis 9-channel amps that produce more power than the factory L7 amplifier.
Beyond the consideration for using multiple amps, consider the fact that doubling the power of all your speakers in the system is only going to give you a small bump in output (+3db). Quadrupling the power will give you a noticeable bump (+6db in theory, but doubt you'll see the gain before power compression) in output, but then you are talking about amplifiers that produce 160 watts to each channel at 2 ohms along with an amplifier to drive the under seat woofers to the tune of 280 watts per channel. I can tell you now that the factory drivers won't last long at these power levels - especially the under seat woofers.
How much are you willing to replace? How much are you willing to spend?
I like audio a lot. I have another car with focal utopia, jl w7, xtant, alpine in another car so I know what you can do in car. I don't see a way to get same level of performance in E60 without replacing the whole audio chain. I would like to try is introducing delay to the left channel (process all audio files to do left/right channel time allignment). I am afraid it will create more damage than good (fix mid/high dealay but destroy the bass).
Using high output from the built in amp doesn't look attractive. You basically take the distortion generated by that built-in amp and amplify them assuming you can match the gain settings of the built in amp otherwise all DSP processing is screwed up. In fact built in amp probably has more power than those drivers can handle. Though it is a cheap switching amp built to cost like most mass produced audio components are (including many high end pieces).
Last edited by tpaxadpom; 08-25-2014 at 11:49 AM.
08-25-2014 | 01:31 PM
#10
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
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From: Spokane, WA USA
Do you know where the DSP processing is happening in Logic 7 system? Basically before I would consider an upgrade I would like to see if getting a clear line out is possible. As the whole the system has tons of dynamic processing that cannot be removed using parametric/graphic equalizer at all volumes. I am sure the speakers don't have analog crossover network so all of the filtering and driver FR correction is done in DSP. Replacing drivers without replacing the whole audio path would not make much sense and the DSP was voiced to stock drivers.
I like audio a lot. I have another car with focal utopia, jl w7, xtant, alpine in another car so I know what you can do in car. I don't see a way to get same level of performance in E60 without replacing the whole audio chain. I would like to try is introducing delay to the left channel (process all audio files to do left/right channel time allignment). I am afraid it will create more damage than good (fix mid/high dealay but destroy the bass).
Using high output from the built in amp doesn't look attractive. You basically take the distortion generated by that built-in amp and amplify them assuming you can match the gain settings of the built in amp otherwise all DSP processing is screwed up. In fact built in amp probably has more power than those drivers can handle. Though it is a cheap switching amp built to cost like most mass produced audio components are (including many high end pieces).
I like audio a lot. I have another car with focal utopia, jl w7, xtant, alpine in another car so I know what you can do in car. I don't see a way to get same level of performance in E60 without replacing the whole audio chain. I would like to try is introducing delay to the left channel (process all audio files to do left/right channel time allignment). I am afraid it will create more damage than good (fix mid/high dealay but destroy the bass).
Using high output from the built in amp doesn't look attractive. You basically take the distortion generated by that built-in amp and amplify them assuming you can match the gain settings of the built in amp otherwise all DSP processing is screwed up. In fact built in amp probably has more power than those drivers can handle. Though it is a cheap switching amp built to cost like most mass produced audio components are (including many high end pieces).
The L7 processing occurs inside the OEM L7 amplifier.
The OEM L7 mid/high combo is actively high passed via the amplifier. The mid range drivers are allowed to play full range and roll off naturally. The tweeters utilize a capacitor for a passive high pass filter. The under seat woofers are actively low passed via the amplifier and allowed to play all the way down to their cutoff.
All of the L7 drivers are actually quite decent. JBL built a 3-series a few years back utilizing the JBL MS8 processor, JBL amplifiers, a 12" JBL subwoofer and they retained all of the factory logic 7 speakers and added three OEM L7 tweeters (center and rear doors). That car garnered the highest sound quality score at Spring Break Nationals one year. Being in the biz on the home audio side, I've had a chance to listen to the car. It's incredible, given the fact that it is using the factory head unit and all factory drivers, plus a single 12" sub.
IMO, your best bet is to replace the L7 amp with a MoBridge DA1 (toslink optical output) or Mobridge DA2 (8-channel configurable analog RCA outputs). Either of these units will take the audio from the MOST BUS and either convert it to standard toslink for use by audio processors with a toslink input, such as an Alpine PXA-H800 or to multiple analog RCA outputs converted by a high-quality DAC. Replacing the L7 amp with a MoBridge unit may require some recoding of your car, depending on the options it has from the factory.