AchtungE60

I have been troubleshooting a vibration from 65-90 mph for a while after throwing on my staggered wheels. I do not get this with the OEM wheels. After learning from someone on this board (thx to whoever it was) that the E60 does have rear toe. And a change in camber also creates a change in toe. I recall another member stating he put on spacers on his rear tires and had the vibrating as well. This was only after putting on spacers.
My rear tires are 10.5 inches but in any case I had bad wear on the inside of my rear treads and an extremely strange wear. About 4 inches in the contact path started to get down to metal in another part a bubble was forming. At that time I just unmounted the tires and put wheels to the side.
About 4K miles ago I put a new set of tires on all 4 and put them back on. Still a bit of vibration at 65-90mph. Anything outside of that, nothing. 0-62 or so and from 96-140mph, nothing. I have been through 4 sets of rings for the rear trying to rule that out. It is not the issue. So knowing that my wheels are 2.5 inches wider than the OEM, I figure it must mess with the aligment. It most certainly messes with camber and as documentation shows. A change in camber automatically creates a change in toe, even if a slight one.
Spoke to a friend who is the Master Technician & Shop Foreman of a reputable BMW shop in N. America. Who enlightened me of the following....

E60 Chassis Overview p.13
© 2002 BMW AG

- Loading of the vehicle is no longer necessary for wheel-alignment
checks on E46, E65 and E85 vehicles and on future models.

The above models existed in 2002. Since the E60 arrived on the scene in 2003, (2004 in the U.S. market) it is exempt from loading being that it is considered a "future model".

I know many people had claimed that they put 100 lbs sand bags etc etc. But this is inaccurate according to him and "old school"
It appears that anytime you actually change to a staggered setup, it is essential you have the vehicle re-aligned for that specific set of wheels otherwise you will not have the same level of comfort as you would OEM. Even if you are using a set of staggered OEM wheels. This pertains to the E60, E65, E90 etc etc. All of the vehicles which utilize a specific set of electronics and sensors.

H F

Hey bro, I remember that post on rear toe, Was a good and interesting thread.. I have read that some wheels are not hub centric and need hub rings , for that vibration issue maybe thats all u need..Theres a few post on bimmerfest on this check this out....subject..http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=676809

AchtungE60

..

paran

I think that preloading is a bona fide fact relative to OEM E60, BMW, design.

Yes, BMW dealers, Indy shops, and DIY retailers, consider it a "pain in the axx"; but that is OEM to BMW at time of design & manufacture.

Naturally, BMW dealerships and Indy shops in the USA threw a fit about having to load 550 lbs of "whatever" into specific locations within the interior cabin and trunk.

(If you plan on having a 4 wheel alignment; make 1000% sure that they preload the vehicle. Global BMW in Atlanta insists on it. NAPA also requires it. So does Hunter, the mfg'r of the alignment equipment used by BMW and reputable Indy shops.)

But: "Life sucks; then you die."

Presto!

"Pre-loading isn't needed anymore."

Besides, those engineers that "spec'd it" have since retired (or been forced into retirement); were morons back in Munchen in the early part of the 21st century.. \

In 2013, we know better.

All you have to do is read the hundreds of complaints about their tension strut arm bushings, etc., failing after 10K miles. They blame the mfg'r, but the fact is: that "pre-loading" is critical to LONGEVITY of the replaced part.

Yes, if you don't preload, it will "work just fine" but you'll back in the shop within a couple of year because the "old school engineers:" were not as stupid as the "young bucks" think.

AchtungE60

I gave info above. Read it or don't. Agree with it or don't. But it's what BMW states. It's plain black and white.

Anyway, i only came to give everyone factual advice from the "trusted engineers" that built their Ultimate Driving Machine vehicles.
My life doesn't suck. I am eagerly awaiting my date with death.
Now back to my hole...

tonyb635

This is an interesting topic because the strange thing is the factory doesn't preload the car at all for the alignment but yet you hear that it's required for shops to do this. Curious why the difference. A few years ago while getting an alignment i was able to get out in the shop. The tech was showing me the requirements for the alignment. 3/4 tank of fuel, weights in the front, rear and in the trunk. Not sure of the total weight and cant remember the individual weights either but it does seem like they were in 50 lbs increments.

Laco19

I read this in service manuals. There are two different methods for wheel alignment:

- without any preload, but serviceman must enter the front and rear ride heights, tread depths, tyre pressure, etc. to alignment machine. I thing that this method is used only by dealerships with special alignment machines and that this machines recalculate measured angles from unloaded position defined by entered data to preloaded "design position", because the wheel alignment by this method is done via BMW table for loaded car in "design position".
This method can't be used for M models or if there are any problems with ride heights (difference side to side).

- Second method is done with specified preload 3 x 68kg (3x150lbs), 21kg (26 lbs) in trunk and full fuel tank. This is "normal position" in BMW terminology. In this position ride heights must be in 10mm tolerance to BMW table. But the setting should be done in the "design position" - by distributing loads and adding additional small loads, the ride height within 2mm tolerance should be aquired. Before setting to "design position", the fuse for air spring system must be removed (if equiped). Now, wheel alignment is made by the same BMW table as in the method without any load.

Has anyone seen doing wheel alignment precisely by this method? Or the serviceman just put some 4 loads with random weight to car and began to make the setting?

H F

Its 200 lbs of total weight....

H F

Did u go go thru 4 sets of spacer rings ? Or 4 sets of hub rings ?

tonyb635

I looked this up and yes, the weight is correct and distributed in certain places, BUT also 3/4 tank of fuel. I am curious though as to why the factory does not use weights but service does.