Sorry but I can't resist posting a link to this message from a while ago...

No offense RoBD305 but I think you'll find that in time, you'll look back on your current position and realize that you don't lose any more driver involvement with an SMG, it's simply progress through technology. (Cars had cranks at one time instead of starters, did drivers become less involved when they began turning a key?)

 

Well, there have been less broken arms. Go figure.

 

Sorry but I can't resist posting a link to this message from a while ago...

No offense RoBD305 but I think you'll find that in time, you'll look back on your current position and realize that you don't lose any more driver involvement with an SMG, it's simply progress through technology. (Cars had cranks at one time instead of starters, did drivers become less involved when they began turning a key?)
[/quote]

In time, I would agree that manual gearboxes and slushmatic boxes will be gone. But until everyone else at least matches what Audi have done with the DSG, it will NOT be THE choice.

The DSG is the best. But in a year or 2 others will catch up. Then we'll see the demise of anything else.

I'm keen to know how the new M5 7 speed SMG works. Maybe BMW have done a good job of that.

 

Sorry but I can't resist posting a link to this message from a while ago...

No offense RoBD305 but I think you'll find that in time, you'll look back on your current position and realize that you don't lose any more driver involvement with an SMG, it's simply progress through technology. (Cars had cranks at one time instead of starters, did drivers become less involved when they began turning a key?)
[/quote]

I tend to still disagree. There is definately less driver involvement required driving an SMG style transmission. You do not need to monitor revs to teh degree you need to with a manual transmission. Throttle blips are all calculated by teh SMG's computer adn though it is always perfect, blipping the throttle yourself jsut adds another domentsion to driving. I can honestly say that I enjoy matching my revs through gear changes. It gives me that "control" over the car. The SMG does all that for you. All you need to concentrate on SMG is when to upshift and downshift. The other factors of driving a MT are done by the computer.
On the other hand, I do love some features of SMG especially the idea of having 7 gears. That is something a stick shift can not offer.

 

I haven't owned a 540i 6-speed, but I have driven all variants in multiple sessions.

1. YES !!!!!!!
2. On a scale 1 to 10, 10 being higest 9 on SMG and 7 on 6-speed. The difference in variation has to do with consistancy and accuracy.
3. There is a delay, similar to you shifting a 6-speed manual, but much faster and harder shift, especially in "sport" mode.

 

Have you spent many hours in an SMG Rob? I myself have never driven one. There just aren't any at my dealership and the salesmen and managers are far from purists. They think SMG is an automatic that jerks too much. So I drive a standard transmission, which I love as I have for the last 27 years behind the wheel. BUT the posts on this board from SMG owners are starting to make me wonder if I should get another 6spd in 3 years or go for an SMG.
One poster on Bimmerfest was raving about SMG on his ED. I know he also has an E39 M5 in his stable. These are clutch people who, from what I gather feather the throttle when shifting to get perfectly smooth shifts even with SMG. So there is some involvelment. Your actual experience in an SMG is very important to your point of view. Its like complaining that I-drive is too complicated after one hour in the car.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.....

Just a few things here:
1) I don't think its fair to critisize SMG being disconnected from the whole driving experince. Until you have given its fair shake.
Case in point, would it be fair for a my wife to dismiss the manual tranny as being "antiquated and overly un-neccessay complex" after 30mins behind the wheel??Absolutely not!! I DO like Hormazd example of i-drive, I think all of us can relate to that and understand the complaint by the old guard "purist" to be non-sense.

2) Unless you've your CDV drilled out on your 6 speed tranny, I don't want to hear about this non-sense of "connectiing shifter to the tranny". In fact I would go as far as saying that you are missing out on a big part of the whole driving experince because you are NOT connected everytime the gear is shifted. For the record SMG, SSG and all manual M cars don't have the CDV.

Please don't take this the wrong way.... We are all entitle to our opinion and individuality is the hallmark of this country. I respect your opinion and more so after you've had the opportunity to spend extended time behind the wheels of a SMG (or SSG). That's all

I am fortunate to have both a I-6 and SMG. I do track the car several times a year and I would NEVER buy a I-6 given a choice over SMG. Its not even close (IMHO)

peace, out

beewang

 

Exactly what I was thinking.....

Just a few things here:
1) I don't think its fair to critisize SMG being disconnected from the whole driving experince. Until you have given its fair shake.
Case in point, would it be fair for a my wife to dismiss the manual tranny as being "antiquated and overly un-neccessay complex" after 30mins behind the wheel??Absolutely not!! I DO like Hormazd example of i-drive, I think all of us can relate to that and understand the complaint by the old guard "purist" to be non-sense.

2) Unless you've your CDV drilled out on your 6 speed tranny, I don't want to hear about this non-sense of "connectiing shifter to the tranny". In fact I would go as far as saying that you are missing out on a big part of the whole driving experince because you are NOT connected everytime the gear is shifted. For the record SMG, SSG and all manual M cars don't have the CDV.

Please don't take this the wrong way.... We are all entitle to our opinion and individuality is the hallmark of this country. I respect your opinion and more so after you've had the opportunity to spend extended time behind the wheels of a SMG (or SSG). That's all

I am fortunate to have both a I-6 and SMG. I do track the car several times a year and I would NEVER buy a I-6 given a choice over SMG. Its not even close (IMHO)

peace, out

beewang
[/quote]


Yes in fact I have driven SMG for many hours. My brother drives an E46 M3 SMG and we have traded cars a few times. I have driven the M3 SMG which is superior by all means than the SMG in the 5. Shifts are incredibly fast, faster than I can even shift. But again I go back into case that it is not as connected as a true manual. I have taken the M3 to teh track on a few track days as well and can agree with you that on a track, it is better suited since you can focus more on the fundamentals, ie turn-in points. beacuse you do not need to worry about rev-matching your downshift entering a corner and such.
In no way am I saying SMG is bad or less superior, it is just not as connected as a true manual.
For the record, my CDV was removed the first week owning the car. No idea how you can drive properly with that thing in.

 

Have you spent many hours in an SMG Rob? I myself have never driven one. There just aren't any at my dealership and the salesmen and managers are far from purists. They think SMG is an automatic that jerks too much. So I drive a standard transmission, which I love as I have for the last 27 years behind the wheel. BUT the posts on this board from SMG owners are starting to make me wonder if I should get another 6spd in 3 years or go for an SMG.
One poster on Bimmerfest was raving about SMG on his ED. I know he also has an E39 M5 in his stable. These are clutch people who, from what I gather feather the throttle when shifting to get perfectly smooth shifts even with SMG. So there is some involvelment. Your actual experience in an SMG is very important to your point of view. Its like complaining that I-drive is too complicated after one hour in the car.
[/quote]

The dealer is giving you wrong information. SMG is by no means an auto that jerks too much. With SMG there is a learning curve associated and it takes time to drive the car smoothly. It took me a good day to get it down when I drove the M3.

 

Right on!!
I guess we agree to disagree on the SMG issue.

cheers,

beewang