550i Step transmission weird behaviour
01-18-2006, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by E60VTA' post='226181' date='Jan 18 2006, 08:29 PM
I stopped by my dealer today to discuss with service three issues with my 2006 550i with just over 1,000 miles. The three issues are:
1. When starting engine cold, idle is a bit rough until the idle switches from fast idle to slow idle - about 20 - 30 seconds.
2. When coming to a stop from a relatively slow speed, or gradually slowing to a stop, the transmission makes a hard downshift at just about 1,000 RPM. It is not a loud clunk or thud, but a definite feel of a jolt or jerk.
3. Under conditions that I have yet to clearly identify, on acceleration from a dead stop, occassionally the accelerator seems to surge teh car forward much more quickly than one has expected or planned.
After explaining these items to a Service Advisor, I took two different people for a ride to show them Item #2. The others seem to occur only when the engine is cold. The second person is the Shop Supervisor. I was able to demonstrate the transmission issue for both of them and they definitely felt it several times each. I have an appointment on Monday to take my car in for them to attempt to fix all three issues or at least Items #1 & #2. I hope to be able to clarify Item #3 over the weekend. They expect to have the car for two days, so they can deal with the cold start issues.
1. When starting engine cold, idle is a bit rough until the idle switches from fast idle to slow idle - about 20 - 30 seconds.
2. When coming to a stop from a relatively slow speed, or gradually slowing to a stop, the transmission makes a hard downshift at just about 1,000 RPM. It is not a loud clunk or thud, but a definite feel of a jolt or jerk.
3. Under conditions that I have yet to clearly identify, on acceleration from a dead stop, occassionally the accelerator seems to surge teh car forward much more quickly than one has expected or planned.
After explaining these items to a Service Advisor, I took two different people for a ride to show them Item #2. The others seem to occur only when the engine is cold. The second person is the Shop Supervisor. I was able to demonstrate the transmission issue for both of them and they definitely felt it several times each. I have an appointment on Monday to take my car in for them to attempt to fix all three issues or at least Items #1 & #2. I hope to be able to clarify Item #3 over the weekend. They expect to have the car for two days, so they can deal with the cold start issues.
I just dropped my car off at the corporate dealership in downtown Toronto. They told me that #1 (rough idle when cold) should get fixed with CIP 20.00. I also took the shop foreman for a drive and demonstrated #2. I my case (and the foreman agrees with me) the jerk/jolt is due to an upshift and NOT a downshift. They have not seen this before simply because they haven't sold many 550s and nobody had complained about this yet. I am expecting to get a update from them tomorrow afternoon and I will post the results.
I am not experincing the #3 issue.
Osama
Thanks for your update. I agree that looking at the documentation for CIP 20, Item #1, the rough idle at start -up should be cured with this upgrade. I think that you are also correct regarding the limited number of 550i cars that service people see.
When you feel the odd transmission shift at low speed (in my case it is in D) do you see the tach needle shift/bump UP or DOWN?
[/quote]
Osama I am taking delivery of my 550 on 1/18/06 how did you find the CIP version of your car? I hope mine has it. I bought a standing inventory car and have not found out the build date on it. It only has 20 miles on it.
01-18-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Osama Arafat' post='226186' date='Jan 18 2006, 05:38 PM
[quote name='E60VTA' post='226181' date='Jan 18 2006, 08:29 PM']
I stopped by my dealer today to discuss with service three issues with my 2006 550i with just over 1,000 miles. The three issues are:
1. When starting engine cold, idle is a bit rough until the idle switches from fast idle to slow idle - about 20 - 30 seconds.
2. When coming to a stop from a relatively slow speed, or gradually slowing to a stop, the transmission makes a hard downshift at just about 1,000 RPM. It is not a loud clunk or thud, but a definite feel of a jolt or jerk.
3. Under conditions that I have yet to clearly identify, on acceleration from a dead stop, occassionally the accelerator seems to surge teh car forward much more quickly than one has expected or planned.
After explaining these items to a Service Advisor, I took two different people for a ride to show them Item #2. The others seem to occur only when the engine is cold. The second person is the Shop Supervisor. I was able to demonstrate the transmission issue for both of them and they definitely felt it several times each. I have an appointment on Monday to take my car in for them to attempt to fix all three issues or at least Items #1 & #2. I hope to be able to clarify Item #3 over the weekend. They expect to have the car for two days, so they can deal with the cold start issues.
I stopped by my dealer today to discuss with service three issues with my 2006 550i with just over 1,000 miles. The three issues are:
1. When starting engine cold, idle is a bit rough until the idle switches from fast idle to slow idle - about 20 - 30 seconds.
2. When coming to a stop from a relatively slow speed, or gradually slowing to a stop, the transmission makes a hard downshift at just about 1,000 RPM. It is not a loud clunk or thud, but a definite feel of a jolt or jerk.
3. Under conditions that I have yet to clearly identify, on acceleration from a dead stop, occassionally the accelerator seems to surge teh car forward much more quickly than one has expected or planned.
After explaining these items to a Service Advisor, I took two different people for a ride to show them Item #2. The others seem to occur only when the engine is cold. The second person is the Shop Supervisor. I was able to demonstrate the transmission issue for both of them and they definitely felt it several times each. I have an appointment on Monday to take my car in for them to attempt to fix all three issues or at least Items #1 & #2. I hope to be able to clarify Item #3 over the weekend. They expect to have the car for two days, so they can deal with the cold start issues.
I just dropped my car off at the corporate dealership in downtown Toronto. They told me that #1 (rough idle when cold) should get fixed with CIP 20.00. I also took the shop foreman for a drive and demonstrated #2. I my case (and the foreman agrees with me) the jerk/jolt is due to an upshift and NOT a downshift. They have not seen this before simply because they haven't sold many 550s and nobody had complained about this yet. I am expecting to get a update from them tomorrow afternoon and I will post the results.
I am not experincing the #3 issue.
Osama
Thanks for your update. I agree that looking at the documentation for CIP 20, Item #1, the rough idle at start -up should be cured with this upgrade. I think that you are also correct regarding the limited number of 550i cars that service people see.
When you feel the odd transmission shift at low speed (in my case it is in D) do you see the tach needle shift/bump UP or DOWN?
[/quote]
Osama I am taking delivery of my 550 on 1/18/06 how did you find the CIP version of your car? I hope mine has it. I bought a standing inventory car and have not found out the build date on it. It only has 20 miles on it.
[/quote]
I have a 550 (Sept 09) and has a rough idle when cold, no shifting problems though. Not sure which CIP version - hoping to learn how to find the CIP version as above.
01-19-2006, 01:17 AM
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my dealer said NO Ds until car is broke in. ??? sorry for you mate.
How about if you press the breake so it will know that you are close to stop, sorry never had an issue with my Stept.
How about if you press the breake so it will know that you are close to stop, sorry never had an issue with my Stept.
01-19-2006, 02:09 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by E60VTA' post='226274' date='Jan 19 2006, 01:05 AM
When you feel the odd transmission shift at low speed (in my case it is in D) do you see the tach needle shift/bump UP or DOWN?
Osama
01-19-2006, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirty 30' post='222005' date='Jan 10 2006, 01:32 PM
I'm surprised the dealer replaced the transmission over those symptoms. the odds of it being mechanical were by far outweighed by it being software related.
completely agree; this seems very stupid also considering the amount of cost and labour they put into this. I remember when I had Software update 19 that my auto gearbox went much smoother.
definitely something were BMW US or AG shoul didg in.
success.
M.
01-19-2006, 06:32 AM
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Osama
[/quote]
Thanks for thid confirmation. This happens at about 1,100 or 1,000 RPM, correct? I am going to do a bit more observing over the next few days before I take the car to the dealer on Monday. Please let me know what your dealer finds out about this issue on your car.
01-19-2006, 11:32 AM
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My Ride: 2006 550i Sport Package, Cold Weather Package, Premium Sound Package, Comfort Access, Xenon Headlights, Adaptive Headlight Control, Navigation System, Steptronic Transmission. Silver Gray Metallic with Gray Leather. Added Red rear reflectors. Swapped stock Style 124 wheels and Bridgestone run-flat tires for BMW Style 125 5-Double Spoke wheels, 8" x 19" front, 9.5" x 19" rear with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, 245/40YR-19 front and 275/30YR-19 rear.
Osama
[/quote]
This morning I found this on the BMW TIS website (subscription required - $25 for 24-hours access) under "6-speed automatic transmission":
"Braking deceleration and automatic upshift -
To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.
The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode."
Perhaps this "upshift" is the one you are feeling/experiencing. Maybe what I am feeling is this same "upshift". I confess to being somewhat confused by the linking of the "upshift" to "engine's braking effect". These seem to be counter to one another, or am I missing something.
Another interesting bit under this same heading:
" The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill."
01-19-2006, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by E60VTA' post='226611' date='Jan 19 2006, 03:32 PM
This morning I found this on the BMW TIS website (subscription required - $25 for 24-hours access) under "6-speed automatic transmission":
"Braking deceleration and automatic upshift -
To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.
The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode."
Perhaps this "upshift" is the one you are feeling/experiencing. Maybe what I am feeling is this same "upshift". I confess to being somewhat confused by the linking of the "upshift" to "engine's braking effect". These seem to be counter to one another, or am I missing something.
Another interesting bit under this same heading:
" The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill."
"Braking deceleration and automatic upshift -
To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.
The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode."
Perhaps this "upshift" is the one you are feeling/experiencing. Maybe what I am feeling is this same "upshift". I confess to being somewhat confused by the linking of the "upshift" to "engine's braking effect". These seem to be counter to one another, or am I missing something.
Another interesting bit under this same heading:
" The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill."
01-19-2006, 02:32 PM
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My Ride: 2006 550i Sport Package, Cold Weather Package, Premium Sound Package, Comfort Access, Xenon Headlights, Adaptive Headlight Control, Navigation System, Steptronic Transmission. Silver Gray Metallic with Gray Leather. Added Red rear reflectors. Swapped stock Style 124 wheels and Bridgestone run-flat tires for BMW Style 125 5-Double Spoke wheels, 8" x 19" front, 9.5" x 19" rear with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, 245/40YR-19 front and 275/30YR-19 rear.
This morning I found this on the BMW TIS website (subscription required - $25 for 24-hours access) under "6-speed automatic transmission":
"Braking deceleration and automatic upshift -
To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.
The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode."
Perhaps this "upshift" is the one you are feeling/experiencing. Maybe what I am feeling is this same "upshift". I confess to being somewhat confused by the linking of the "upshift" to "engine's braking effect". These seem to be counter to one another, or am I missing something.
Another interesting bit under this same heading:
" The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill."
"Braking deceleration and automatic upshift -
To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.
The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode."
Perhaps this "upshift" is the one you are feeling/experiencing. Maybe what I am feeling is this same "upshift". I confess to being somewhat confused by the linking of the "upshift" to "engine's braking effect". These seem to be counter to one another, or am I missing something.
Another interesting bit under this same heading:
" The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill."
[/quote]
The way I read these passages is this:
The UPSHIFT, if, indeed, this is what they really mean, is suppressed when the acelerator is released rapidly to zero position. Otherwise, the UPSHIFT occurs when the throttle is closed while braking with the foot off the acelerator.
As I said, the use of an UPSHIFT to utilize engine braking is counter to what should actually happen. Maybe it is a misuse of terms.
Osama has indicated that he is seeing an upshift while in DS. I tried his test and also saw this momentary upshift while slowing to a stop in DS with foot off the acelerator and off the brake. It would appear from the statement I cited above in my orginal quotation that this is the intended action, although for the life of me I can understand why you would want this upshift to occur.
01-20-2006, 03:11 PM
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My Ride: 2006 550i Sport Package, Cold Weather Package, Premium Sound Package, Comfort Access, Xenon Headlights, Adaptive Headlight Control, Navigation System, Steptronic Transmission. Silver Gray Metallic with Gray Leather. Added Red rear reflectors. Swapped stock Style 124 wheels and Bridgestone run-flat tires for BMW Style 125 5-Double Spoke wheels, 8" x 19" front, 9.5" x 19" rear with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, 245/40YR-19 front and 275/30YR-19 rear.
After reading the description of the 6-speed transmission I printed out from BMW TIS, one sentence stuck in my mind. The sentence is this:
"THE DRIVER-TYPE ADAPTATION IS RESTARTED EACH TIME THE VEHICLE PULLS AWAY FROM A STANDSTILL."
I now have just over 1,100 miles on my car since new. Most of these miles have been put on in a fairly conservative manner. When trying to replicate the UPSHIFT, or the jolt, as I slow gradually to a stop without brakes, I am repeatedly coming to a standstill and doing the same gradual speed reduction down to a stop again. This is apparently influencing the transmission mapping each time I restart from a standstill.
This afternoon I tried to drive a bit more normally, a bit more agressively, but not radically so, and I felt the jolt shift at slow speed near a stop only once or twice. Once was as I approached a Stop sign at the top of a steep hill.
I could see from the MPG needle that an upshift does appear to occur nearing a stop with my foot off the brake, because the needle will quickly swing toward, or to, the 12 MPG mark and then back to the Maximum MPG mark on the left. The upshift apparently happens when the transmission senses that the car has passed from an overrunnig mode, car moving faster than the engine speed at zero position on the accelerator, to the point where the engine speed must be increased to maintain car speed (now reduced). Applying the brakes suppresses this upshift to allow for engine braking to be used.
The more rapid acceleration from a dead stop I thought I was feeling I think now is a matter of getting used to the drive-by-wire accelerator.
When I take my car in to the dealer on Monday, as scheduled, I think I will have them deal only with the rough idle at cold start. This is dealt with by upgrading to CIP 20. This other quirk - the jolt - may be a function of driving style/transmission mapping. Apparently this issue, if there is one, has yet to be addressed with a software upgrade. Until I have a better feel for under what circumstances it occurs, I would rather they do not mess with it.
"THE DRIVER-TYPE ADAPTATION IS RESTARTED EACH TIME THE VEHICLE PULLS AWAY FROM A STANDSTILL."
I now have just over 1,100 miles on my car since new. Most of these miles have been put on in a fairly conservative manner. When trying to replicate the UPSHIFT, or the jolt, as I slow gradually to a stop without brakes, I am repeatedly coming to a standstill and doing the same gradual speed reduction down to a stop again. This is apparently influencing the transmission mapping each time I restart from a standstill.
This afternoon I tried to drive a bit more normally, a bit more agressively, but not radically so, and I felt the jolt shift at slow speed near a stop only once or twice. Once was as I approached a Stop sign at the top of a steep hill.
I could see from the MPG needle that an upshift does appear to occur nearing a stop with my foot off the brake, because the needle will quickly swing toward, or to, the 12 MPG mark and then back to the Maximum MPG mark on the left. The upshift apparently happens when the transmission senses that the car has passed from an overrunnig mode, car moving faster than the engine speed at zero position on the accelerator, to the point where the engine speed must be increased to maintain car speed (now reduced). Applying the brakes suppresses this upshift to allow for engine braking to be used.
The more rapid acceleration from a dead stop I thought I was feeling I think now is a matter of getting used to the drive-by-wire accelerator.
When I take my car in to the dealer on Monday, as scheduled, I think I will have them deal only with the rough idle at cold start. This is dealt with by upgrading to CIP 20. This other quirk - the jolt - may be a function of driving style/transmission mapping. Apparently this issue, if there is one, has yet to be addressed with a software upgrade. Until I have a better feel for under what circumstances it occurs, I would rather they do not mess with it.