530i vs. 530d
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='292126' date='Jun 4 2006, 12:41 AM
Fair enough...about the second part of your comment....
PS:I hope you know there is a theory about man never landing on the moon and it's the biggest hoax the humanity has seen. I kinda bealive it just for some questions nasa has not been able to respond to.
PS:I hope you know there is a theory about man never landing on the moon and it's the biggest hoax the humanity has seen. I kinda bealive it just for some questions nasa has not been able to respond to.
Perhaps the 535d doesn't really exist........................................ 
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='292209' date='Jun 4 2006, 11:19 AM
Exactly Perhaps the 535d doesn't really exist........................................
Perhaps the 535d doesn't really exist........................................ 
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='291623' date='Jun 2 2006, 06:16 PM
I asked because it's rather not smart to draw this conclusion alone from the weight of both cars. The sheer extra weight doesn't come (from what i know) from the block itself. The weight according to bmw site for 530d is 1665kg and for 535d 1735kg. I dunno if that's the spec for the 530d steptronic (it might be manual). But anyway...the difference doesn't come from the engine block, but from the upgraded stuff in the car, bigger brakes, second turbo,bigger intercooler and so on...TT does come in a cost in weight. That's why i asked.
and I didn't draw this conclusion from the weight of the cars. It's very confusing but the best engine info I can find is here (even the forum info page is out date on this):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57#M57TU2D30
The 535d and the OLD 530d (like mine) have the M57TUD30 engine.
The new 530d and 730d have the M57TU2D30 engine.
The main change as I understand it was the introduction of an all aluminium cylinder block - like it says here:
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-a...0d-1002027.html
My original point was that (IMO at least) Clarkson was talking nonsense when he called the 535d engine a 'brick' in comparison to the 545i engine. I don't know the engines weights (and very much doubt Clarkson does), but it seems unlikely (to me) that a 4.5l V8 will be significantly lighter than a 3.0l straight 6 diesel (maybe someone can correct me on this).
My second point was that it was unfair to use this argument when comparing the 530d and the 530i. Since the new 530d has the lighter aluminium cylinder block.
A new 530d with auto box has a kerbweight of 1665 kilos and according to the manual in my 04 530d auto it's kerbweight is 1685 kilos.
So it looks as if there has been a weight reduction of around 20 kilos between the 2 models - which I assume is due to the all aluminium block.
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='292648' date='Jun 5 2006, 11:31 AM
I won't take offense and I didn't draw this conclusion from the weight of the cars.
It's very confusing but the best engine info I can find is here (even the forum info page is out date on this):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57#M57TU2D30
The 535d and the OLD 530d (like mine) have the M57TUD30 engine.
The new 530d and 730d have the M57TU2D30 engine.
The main change as I understand it was the introduction of an all aluminium cylinder block - like it says here:
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-a...0d-1002027.html
My original point was that (IMO at least) Clarkson was talking nonsense when he called the 535d engine a 'brick' in comparison to the 545i engine. I don't know the engines weights (and very much doubt Clarkson does), but it seems unlikely (to me) that a 4.5l V8 will be significantly lighter than a 3.0l straight 6 diesel (maybe someone can correct me on this).
My second point was that it was unfair to use this argument when comparing the 530d and the 530i. Since the new 530d has the lighter aluminium cylinder block.
A new 530d with auto box has a kerbweight of 1665 kilos and according to the manual in my 04 530d auto it's kerbweight is 1685 kilos.
So it looks as if there has been a weight reduction of around 20 kilos between the 2 models - which I assume is due to the all aluminium block.
and I didn't draw this conclusion from the weight of the cars. It's very confusing but the best engine info I can find is here (even the forum info page is out date on this):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57#M57TU2D30
The 535d and the OLD 530d (like mine) have the M57TUD30 engine.
The new 530d and 730d have the M57TU2D30 engine.
The main change as I understand it was the introduction of an all aluminium cylinder block - like it says here:
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-a...0d-1002027.html
My original point was that (IMO at least) Clarkson was talking nonsense when he called the 535d engine a 'brick' in comparison to the 545i engine. I don't know the engines weights (and very much doubt Clarkson does), but it seems unlikely (to me) that a 4.5l V8 will be significantly lighter than a 3.0l straight 6 diesel (maybe someone can correct me on this).
My second point was that it was unfair to use this argument when comparing the 530d and the 530i. Since the new 530d has the lighter aluminium cylinder block.
A new 530d with auto box has a kerbweight of 1665 kilos and according to the manual in my 04 530d auto it's kerbweight is 1685 kilos.
So it looks as if there has been a weight reduction of around 20 kilos between the 2 models - which I assume is due to the all aluminium block.
(When they do there will be an appropriate fanfare announcement) My guess is that the updated 35d engine will hit another model first, e.g. 335d, then the E60
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Originally Posted by needforspeed' post='292648' date='Jun 5 2006, 11:31 AM
So it looks as if there has been a weight reduction of around 20 kilos between the 2 models
Which I need to do...
... sometimeABC
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my 2 cents here..... I've choosen the petrol on purpose....
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
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Originally Posted by Peter530i' post='292684' date='Jun 5 2006, 02:10 PM
my 2 cents here..... I've choosen the petrol on purpose....
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
My main reason for getting the diesel was my annual mileage - I won't do 200,000km in 3 years, but I do expect to reach 140,000km plus.
Although the fuel economy is good on the 530i - it is better on the 530d and in three years time, the residual value will be better in the UK on the diesel. It's just that in this country - older large cars don't sell - apart from a select few diesels. I didn't really want an auto - but got one for the same reason.
As I said before I wish I had the petrol car - especially as this is the first time in a few years that I don't have to worry about company car tax, but I think it depends on your situation.
Own car - low milage - get the 530i
Company car or high milage - get the 530d
To be honest - they are both stunning cars - so you don't lose either way
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Thank you all.
So nice to learn out of other's experience and preferences.
Meanwhile, I could only add this:
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=26984
Am I getting crazy? Anyone feels the same?
So nice to learn out of other's experience and preferences.
Meanwhile, I could only add this:
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=26984
Am I getting crazy? Anyone feels the same?
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='292675' date='Jun 5 2006, 03:20 PM
This is all true but I think MakeBetterWay was thinking of a conspiracy theory that how do we know the 535d uses the same block as the old 530d and maybe BMW have already started using the new block... (When they do there will be an appropriate fanfare announcement) My guess is that the updated 35d engine will hit another model first, e.g. 335d, then the E60
(When they do there will be an appropriate fanfare announcement) My guess is that the updated 35d engine will hit another model first, e.g. 335d, then the E60
All i asked is for hard evidence as needforspeed in the end provided. And for that i thank him! That's what i asked. Cuz i didn't know that fact i wanted to be sure and pozitive about it not just on words in the wind. Now i know.
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Originally Posted by Peter530i' post='292684' date='Jun 5 2006, 04:10 PM
my 2 cents here..... I've choosen the petrol on purpose....
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
The engine belts you speak of are consumable parts on the petrol also. I dunno how much they will last and i know they won't cost a fortune even i change them maximum once in my period of ownership. Filters and all other parts are consumable just as in the petrol. And if you properly take care of the turbo (to be carefull not to let it cool down fast if you raced it before) or clean it once every 100k i think the turbos will last at least 300k. Wich is by far the exceding value of any of the owner's miles from the forum.
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
I sure do hope you've driven hard other diesels. It feels different BECAUSE: the petrol accelerates more linear and more smooth (even though it might accelerate the same) but the diesel because of it's compression, turns out alot of torque wich is more like a kick in the back. It feels like a big surge of energy comming from nowhere. And because it has a more narrow rev-band it feels alot faster even if it might not be. Also the diesel helps you alot through town...feel lazy and forgot to change gear, no problem the diesel forgets you and it carries on.
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
That is indeed sweet an no diesel can match that! I miss that in a way.
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
Not a fashion here in Europe. It's just an alternative. A cheaper alternative with it's own ritual for performance. It's not the same diesel vs petrol price. At the pump the best diesel costs (here) 1 Euro/liter while the best petrol 100+ costs 1.14 Euros. To a tank it's 9.8 Euros difference. And because the petrol will pull up more often for petrol that figure ends probably around 15-18 Euros per tank. Assume that you fill up at least twice a month that's 40 Euros give or take per month. Multiply by 1 year and you get 480Euros savings just on fuel. In my calculation i used BMW's specs. So it's not even at all. And i used my own petrol visit (of 2 times per month, if you do even more miles you can reach from 3 to 4 tanks/month). So it's cheaper to run, by pretty much, even though at start the petrol costs less. In a way the same ratio will show up at resale when the petrol will be the cheaper one and will be harder to sell (in Europe).
when the consumption is no issue. which in many cases its not guys.... unless 200k km on the clock in 3 yrs. which I doubt in many of you, but anyway.... also to mention that the 530i is very cood in consumption. very nice mileage. also the diesel engine requires more expensive maintenance, I do not know how is it in english but you will need new engine belts after cca 130k km I would say..... plus the turbo will not last forever IMHO.... and we do not have full warranty for more then 2 yrs over here so owning a powerfull diesel before I know that it gets costly to maintaine the engine if you really drive it a lot
The engine belts you speak of are consumable parts on the petrol also. I dunno how much they will last and i know they won't cost a fortune even i change them maximum once in my period of ownership. Filters and all other parts are consumable just as in the petrol. And if you properly take care of the turbo (to be carefull not to let it cool down fast if you raced it before) or clean it once every 100k i think the turbos will last at least 300k. Wich is by far the exceding value of any of the owner's miles from the forum.
like others said the more power feeling coming from the diesel is only a placebo effect and yeah the torque a little, but numbers are the same people......
I sure do hope you've driven hard other diesels. It feels different BECAUSE: the petrol accelerates more linear and more smooth (even though it might accelerate the same) but the diesel because of it's compression, turns out alot of torque wich is more like a kick in the back. It feels like a big surge of energy comming from nowhere. And because it has a more narrow rev-band it feels alot faster even if it might not be. Also the diesel helps you alot through town...feel lazy and forgot to change gear, no problem the diesel forgets you and it carries on.
i love going 60mph (100km/h) only in 2gear..... going 180km/h only in 4th gear......such long high revving gears..... sweet.....
That is indeed sweet an no diesel can match that! I miss that in a way.
diesels are great, but not worth such the big words out there.... I would say that half way it is just a "fashion" issue of todays time
and really I think there were some numbers and computatoins done before somewhere and if you take the price of petrol vs diesel fuel, which is the same pretty much, the price of the new car, where diesel is still slightly more expensive, and the maintanance costs you will end up realizing that unless some really really high mileage in 3 yrs time it is pretty much even to run diesel or petrol
Not a fashion here in Europe. It's just an alternative. A cheaper alternative with it's own ritual for performance. It's not the same diesel vs petrol price. At the pump the best diesel costs (here) 1 Euro/liter while the best petrol 100+ costs 1.14 Euros. To a tank it's 9.8 Euros difference. And because the petrol will pull up more often for petrol that figure ends probably around 15-18 Euros per tank. Assume that you fill up at least twice a month that's 40 Euros give or take per month. Multiply by 1 year and you get 480Euros savings just on fuel. In my calculation i used BMW's specs. So it's not even at all. And i used my own petrol visit (of 2 times per month, if you do even more miles you can reach from 3 to 4 tanks/month). So it's cheaper to run, by pretty much, even though at start the petrol costs less. In a way the same ratio will show up at resale when the petrol will be the cheaper one and will be harder to sell (in Europe).