525D 2004 Suspension vibration and Flutter
02-19-2007, 09:44 AM
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Hi Guys,
Last summer my car exhibited a vibration at between 75 and 80MPH felt through the seats and cabin. Below 70 was OK and above 80 was OK. My first thought was wheel balance (probably rear wheels) so I had all four rebalanced with little improvement.
The car was booked into the main dealer who reported excessive play in the rear suspension arms and changed them under warranty. A few days later we drove the car down to South of France on holiday a round trip of 2500 miles.
The vibration was still there. During the holiday we also noticed another effect we hadn't noticed before. When you had been driving for a few miles and then encountered a slightly rough road surface a very strange effect occurred. This can be best described as if the wheels were"bouncing" across minor ripples and bumps in the road almost as if the dampers wern't working properly resulting in an unpleasant ride, (underdamped). This would occur at any speed, even down to 20MPH. Strange thing was that first drive in the morning was fine but the effect got worse after about 30 minutes of driving.
The weather was hotter than England and I did wonder if the damper oil warmed up after a few miles and the dampers became less effective?
On returning to England the car was booked into a main dealer who pronounced the rear wheels had "run out" and that this could
cause both effects. They also advised some uneven wear on the front near side tyre, (a problem in England due to the large number of roundabouts which scuffs the outer edge). To cut a long story short(er) I ended up replacing all four tyres with new P7's 225x55 W16. I also had a full KDS wheel alignment performed but this showed only minor adjustments necessary.
Replacing the tyres has largely removed the vibration at 75MPH but not the other effect. The dealer can't find anything wrong and seems to suggest I'm imagining it. On the first occasion they didn't drive it for more than 5 miles so wouldn't have experienced it. After booking it in again for the same issue they begrudgingly changed the rear dampers but this made no difference either.
As time went on the weather got colder and I had to drive further before the effect would show. About 150 miles to be precise.
A few weeks later BMW HQ rang asking me to do with a customer satisfaction survey. When they asked "was I happy with the work th e dealer had completed" I let them know in no uncertain terms what I thought.
30 minutes later the dealer rang to book my car in for 5 days and promised to thouroughly test it and find the fault. They even agreed to their driver taking it for a 150 mile spin. However a day later they rang to say they could find nothing wrong and telling me to come back if the issue got worse.
I've since run the car for a few months and apart from this problem would have considered purchasing it from the lease company later in the year when the lease is up. I love the car but hate this effect. When I point out the effect to passengers they agree with me that somethings wrong but often they don't notice it until I point it out. Guess they don't know just how smooth the E60 is when its right.
I keep thinking back to when the rear suspension arms were replaced. It seems a remarkable coincidence that this effect coincided with them being changed but as I say the dealer can find nothing wrong.
When Ive asked passengers to describe the effect some have said its like something very heavy is mounted on a stiff sping and attached to the chassis. When the car hits a bump in the road the object trembles sending decaying vibrations through the cabin.
Sorry this must be the longest most bizzare question out but has anyone got any ideas?
I should point out that the car has done 43k miles
Graham
On the
Last summer my car exhibited a vibration at between 75 and 80MPH felt through the seats and cabin. Below 70 was OK and above 80 was OK. My first thought was wheel balance (probably rear wheels) so I had all four rebalanced with little improvement.
The car was booked into the main dealer who reported excessive play in the rear suspension arms and changed them under warranty. A few days later we drove the car down to South of France on holiday a round trip of 2500 miles.
The vibration was still there. During the holiday we also noticed another effect we hadn't noticed before. When you had been driving for a few miles and then encountered a slightly rough road surface a very strange effect occurred. This can be best described as if the wheels were"bouncing" across minor ripples and bumps in the road almost as if the dampers wern't working properly resulting in an unpleasant ride, (underdamped). This would occur at any speed, even down to 20MPH. Strange thing was that first drive in the morning was fine but the effect got worse after about 30 minutes of driving.
The weather was hotter than England and I did wonder if the damper oil warmed up after a few miles and the dampers became less effective?
On returning to England the car was booked into a main dealer who pronounced the rear wheels had "run out" and that this could
cause both effects. They also advised some uneven wear on the front near side tyre, (a problem in England due to the large number of roundabouts which scuffs the outer edge). To cut a long story short(er) I ended up replacing all four tyres with new P7's 225x55 W16. I also had a full KDS wheel alignment performed but this showed only minor adjustments necessary.
Replacing the tyres has largely removed the vibration at 75MPH but not the other effect. The dealer can't find anything wrong and seems to suggest I'm imagining it. On the first occasion they didn't drive it for more than 5 miles so wouldn't have experienced it. After booking it in again for the same issue they begrudgingly changed the rear dampers but this made no difference either.
As time went on the weather got colder and I had to drive further before the effect would show. About 150 miles to be precise.
A few weeks later BMW HQ rang asking me to do with a customer satisfaction survey. When they asked "was I happy with the work th e dealer had completed" I let them know in no uncertain terms what I thought.
30 minutes later the dealer rang to book my car in for 5 days and promised to thouroughly test it and find the fault. They even agreed to their driver taking it for a 150 mile spin. However a day later they rang to say they could find nothing wrong and telling me to come back if the issue got worse.
I've since run the car for a few months and apart from this problem would have considered purchasing it from the lease company later in the year when the lease is up. I love the car but hate this effect. When I point out the effect to passengers they agree with me that somethings wrong but often they don't notice it until I point it out. Guess they don't know just how smooth the E60 is when its right.
I keep thinking back to when the rear suspension arms were replaced. It seems a remarkable coincidence that this effect coincided with them being changed but as I say the dealer can find nothing wrong.
When Ive asked passengers to describe the effect some have said its like something very heavy is mounted on a stiff sping and attached to the chassis. When the car hits a bump in the road the object trembles sending decaying vibrations through the cabin.
Sorry this must be the longest most bizzare question out but has anyone got any ideas?
I should point out that the car has done 43k miles
Graham
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02-19-2007, 09:59 AM
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My Ride: My ex-ride: EU '08 LCI 520dA. Space Grey, Sport Seats in Black Leather/Fabric Anthracite, Sport Steering Wheel, A/C with Extended Features, Hi-Fi Speakers, Cup Holders, Cruise with Braking function, Folding Rear Seats, Xenons, Park Distance Control.
Did you buy this as a brand new one? If not car history?
What tyres and wheels does it have, new or used?
Service history?
Where are you from?
What tyres and wheels does it have, new or used?
Service history?
Where are you from?
02-19-2007, 02:15 PM
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My Ride: Estoril Blue 440i GC
Model Year: 2017
You must be lucky in the States.
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
02-20-2007, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AlwynMike' post='393290' date='Feb 19 2007, 11:15 PM
You must be lucky in the States.
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
Well I have to agree I think the service advisor is a waste of space. Seems like he trys to avoid the issue.
To answer the previous questions Ive had the car from new and its had full service history. It used to ride like a dream.
02-20-2007, 03:45 PM
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You must be lucky in the States.
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
My experience at a number of Dealerships is that the "Service Advisor" is as much use as a Chocolate Teapot when it comes to knowing ANYTHING about our cars. Yes, they are good PR people and they can operate a computer terminal to tell you that your car is booked in, but that's about all. It may be a generalisation, but SA's are just front-men (or women) and are not at all technically minded. Hence, taking one out for a drive seems rather pointless to me!!
Originally Posted by GrahamH' post='393589' date='Feb 20 2007, 04:33 PM
Well I have to agree I think the service advisor is a waste of space. Seems like he trys to avoid the issue.
To answer the previous questions Ive had the car from new and its had full service history. It used to ride like a dream.
To answer the previous questions Ive had the car from new and its had full service history. It used to ride like a dream.
I agree, most SAs are front staff that try to remember a few details about their customers and they also help in checking in your car for service.
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