550sport87

As a bmw tech, I agree we replace a lot of the same parts on all cars. But realistically that's any car any make and model. That's not just related to leaks, that's everything. When I worked in the aftermarket world it was easier to diagnose issues when you start seeing repeat issues. Bmw hires outside companies to make products. If that product fails to perform to their standards they redesign it and update it, aka usually they'll outsource to a new company or make them change their design.
Why are underbelly panels absorbent? They're not intended for that. They're made of that material for 2 reasons. They offer sound deadening to road noise and they're more flexible and durable than just a piece of plastic. Half the cars that come in have large sections of their under body panels missing when they're made of plastic instead of the fiber material. Coincidentally it's absorben , but I highly doubt it's BMWs logic or intention to try and hide a problem. Bmw warranties EVERYTHING. They recall things that aren't even safety concerns but simply just a common issue, look at the CCP on the N63. I'm performing THOUSANDS of dollars in repairs to cars with over 100k miles on them, doing timing chains even which is over 30hrs in labor (warranty time) Why? Because they're common costly repairs. They stand behind their product very very well. Ok, so their rubber seals leak. If you cant afford a BMW, don't drive one or at least lease it. But don't nag the company for trying to do something good just because it costs you money, even though you're driving what, a $60,000 car. Lol cmon guys you can't have everything.

twh

Let me say I love the way my BMW drives. But, we can have everything, IMO -- if one of the car companies tried hard enough. My parents just donated their 1985 Toyota Camry with 350,000 miles. Yes, it still ran. The car never had regular service. Last spark pugs, my father only wire brushed them clean. I had to replace a leaking rear brake cylinder and found the brake fluid reservoir had algae growing in it. The car worked fine in that stare. We need the Germans and Japanese to get together and make a killer car that just works and lasts.

dingolfing

No it's not. Out of the 14 common repairs I listed, I can see the trans mounts and the water pump being wear and tear items all auto manufacturers face. The rest fail way too early (at just a year or two past warranty) to be considered routine maintenance and which clearly show that German rubber, possibly even European rubber in general, just doesn't last.

You're most likely right about the underbelly panels. I was just throwing out conspiracy theories to exaggerate the point that BMW knows for a fact that the rubber that goes into their cars will degrade sooner than others. You're a BMW tech, you see this every time an out of warranty car comes in for service. If you don't, those owners are taking their leaking cars to an indy because they know better.

That Customer Care Package for all N63 equipped cars must be a nightmare for anyone who owns a turbocharged BMW V8. Timing chains are not supposed to stretch AND they are supposed to last 200K miles or more. But we all know why they are stretching. BMW is an innovator in the performance spectrum, finding new ways to make more power, and I applaud them for that. However they are newcomers to the forced induction arena (still), so problems will arise, this timing chain issue (along with a boatload of other exclusive N63 issues) being one of them. HPFP issues were a previous widespread problem with the first-time-ever turbocharged N54 inline six engines, this being a major reason I chose to go with the somewhat more reliable N62 550i. The N63 problem is so bad that BMW is willing to buy back customer cars if they choose to relinquish their new rides. You can call that standing behind your product but how in the world did BMW not catch these gremlins during the lengthy R&D phase? I guarantee you some of those BMW owners will have such a bad taste in their mouth that they will not buy another BMW again.

I don't even know why we are talking about the N63 fiasco, because this thread was about leaking engines and the rubber that causes it... so back on point.

You pay $60K for a car for all the time spent in R&D to produce a car with innovative design, high pedigree, and high performance. That costs money, people want that and people are willing to pay for that. What doesn't cost money is long-lasting rubber that has been around for decades.

dingolfing

Algae?! A fully functional organic braking system?! That's awesome!

BMW and Toyota have cooperated on some projects already... albeit for the performance and battery technology trade agreements, sadly not for reliability know-how.

550sport87

Bmw is on top of technology, when you're always trying new things you're guaranteed to have failure. Bmw has had leak issues since I can remember. I can't remember the last time I saw a vacuum pump that wasn't leaking. It's obviously not something of their priority. Which kind of makes sense because they are a mix of a "green company" performance and luxury. Maybe its just me, but we have enough plastic and rubber sitting in the landfills, i think its pretty awesome they take that into consideration when they make their products. If they made cars that lasted forever customers wouldn't buy new ones as frequently. That's bad for them, bad for me and other techs. I don't know what you meant by them being better off going to indy, but I'll just look past it because I take great pride in my work and am very happy to work for such an outstanding company.
Should timing chains stretch at 30k, absolutely not, but at 61k I did timing chains and tensioners on my girlfriends nissan altima because the chains wore all the way through the guides. Then at 79k I just did them on our frontier, exact same issue. The difference is, bmw stood behind their product and is fixing the chain. Nissan couldn't care less. Speaking of leaks, have you looked underneath a GM from 2000, I'll bet my bottom dollar the steering rack is leaking. Look under a 2013 gm, bet ya it's leaking too lol. Check out the price of a 2013 escalade or denali. I bet their tailshaft seal is leaking too.
Will bmw lose customers, yes they will. Did Toyota lose customers over their half a decade problem with runaway cars...absolutely. read up on people's opinions to they 2000$ bill for their timing chain job at nissan. Thousands of people say they'll never buy another nissan. it's part of the business, the difference is how the company chooses to handle their problems. A runaway car should have NEVER lasted that long.
As stated above their trying to be green, performance and luxury. I can't think of many suvs that weigh almost 3 tons and get over 20mpg highway with a V8 and all wheel drive, to me that's pretty awesome.
I guess my point is, just because the car is 60 grand doesn't mean it should be problem free forever lol. If you want to compare it to a bottom of the barrel camry, go ahead. But you won't have ARS, DSC, leather, air suspension, led lights, 350hp, heads up display, all wheel drive I could name 100 things on a bmw that a camry will never have. So it leaks.....fix it and enjoy your car.

dingolfing

Dealership service departments live for making the dealer money. Leaking cars are a godsend for them, especially when the manufacturer doesn't have to foot a warranty bill. My viewpoint of a car lasting forever is 8-10 years with no major repairs. I'm not expecting anymore than that. Like I said, if it weren't for the simple rubber components that I had to replace, this car would be bulletproof. As a dealer tech, you need cars to come in for repair work. That's only natural. And it's good that you take pride in your work. I do as well when I work on my car. Not all techs or mechanics are like that.

I'll just say Nissans aren't generally known for their reliability. If their timing chain can't even last as long as a Honda 100K mile timing belt, that's pretty bad. Sucks you have to go through that. Though I'd cringe if my BMW engine used rubber timing belts.

Now you compare an expensive BMW to a Toyota Camry in performance and luxury amenities when I'm comparing both purely on a reliability standpoint. Of course we all know the BMW is much more desirable, that's why we all have one.

I understand your bias towards BMW since you are a BMW employee. You keep feeling the need to defend only BMW even though I never singled them out and instead referenced all German auto manufacturers. You have your opinion and I have my fact.

H F

Ive seen this on going conversation on many threads.. I feel there is a miss under standing between reliability and required maintenace .. Ive owned my 545 for 8 years and keep it well maintained .. and all but once ,, has never left me stranded on the side of the road . One time was my fault for over tightening a pulley which broke my newly installed serpentine belt .. Finally at ten years old and 106,000 miles the coolant pipe seal went . and I'll count that as a broke down situation that left me parked .. But once in ten years ,, its the real only time. I cant complain about that ...

These cars require higher operating costs than other manufactured cars to keep on the road . Thats the reality of it .. They are high maintenance bitches bottom line .. It's not a reliability issue ,, its a higher cost of ownership issue ...

user 4639202

Hello All,


All of the comments make sense and are based on the owners experience, however, I feel that when you pay thousands of dollars for these cars they shouldn't have oil leaks and premature wear at low mileage. Before I purchased my first BMW I owned a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo which I drove for 15 years and when I sold it the vehicle had 350k miles and I never had any major repairs. Sure it had a few oil leaks, but nothing major and it still had the original transmission. I'm not sure what I'll experience with the 550 as the mileage increases, but I've heard of a few horror stories regarding transmission and head/value issues as the car approaches 80-90k miles. If that's true, then that would concern anyone because of the outrageous repair cost. I realize it's a lot of work to do a value job and replace a transmission but a BMW shouldn't fall apart like that if that's true. I'll see. Right now I'm thinking about purchasing an extended warranty if I decide to keep the car past the CPO.

dingolfing

You are one of the lucky ones. As I recall, many 545/645/745 owners had that problem much earlier than you experienced. That coolant pipe seal was a major engine repair headache for 545i owners. It appears to not affect the 550i, but then again, I thought the alternator bracket seal only affected 545s, so I wouldn't doubt it occurring.

Now when you leave out the much cheaper and easier aftermarket split pipe option to fix this (because most people wouldn't know about it), you're left with the dealer mandated method which requires major engine disassembly, costing many thousands of dollars. All to get access to fix a simple rubber seal that just couldn't last a little bit longer. Your coolant pipe lasted 10 years, so not so bad. But when you weigh the value of a 10 year old BMW and the dealer cost to fix that pipe, it wouldn't make financial sense.

I wouldn't even consider major engine disassembly as a major repair. In my book that is super major engine repair, one where you have to decide whether or not to keep the car. In your case at 10 years, I'd say you had a good reliability run. Those numerous other owners where theirs have failed as early as 6-7 years of age clearly had reliability problems. And it is a reliability problem because a routine maintenance repair (even one as expensive as this coolant pipe) would make itself known early enough to allow you to drive to the mechanic, not unexpectedly leave you unable to drive your car.

twh

Not beyond some mechanics to use the aftermarket pipe and charged you the BMW price.