05 525d vs 04 525i
01-02-2006, 12:28 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by stu' post='214363' date='Dec 22 2005, 01:24 PM
At first, I was truly shocked, how slow the 530i felt.
Now, after a few days with it , if you really redlined it every step of the journey - it did go rather well.
BUT here are the drawbacks,
(i) above 5000 rpm the new engine sounded thrashy ( I agree with Jay Jay that the diesel at idle sounds poor too!). In the 530i petrol, passengers could tell you were "caning it" to make good progress. Frankly it was embarassing , I had to drive more slowly! Wheras passengers in my 530D hear nothing even under significant acceleration. There is a huge difference in "real world driveability ".
(ii) I averaged , over 1000 miles, just 17 mpg. ( pretty distressing given I pay for my own car and fuel)
Under similar conditions my 530D will give 29mpg. This is a much bigger difference than Jay Jay experienced. It was representative though - similar cars and identical driving conditions.
(iii) Used E60's do not hold there value as well as we expected . But the hardest ones to sell are the petrol models.
Now, after a few days with it , if you really redlined it every step of the journey - it did go rather well.
BUT here are the drawbacks,
(i) above 5000 rpm the new engine sounded thrashy ( I agree with Jay Jay that the diesel at idle sounds poor too!). In the 530i petrol, passengers could tell you were "caning it" to make good progress. Frankly it was embarassing , I had to drive more slowly! Wheras passengers in my 530D hear nothing even under significant acceleration. There is a huge difference in "real world driveability ".
(ii) I averaged , over 1000 miles, just 17 mpg. ( pretty distressing given I pay for my own car and fuel)
Under similar conditions my 530D will give 29mpg. This is a much bigger difference than Jay Jay experienced. It was representative though - similar cars and identical driving conditions.
(iii) Used E60's do not hold there value as well as we expected . But the hardest ones to sell are the petrol models.
I found that the 523i did not feel slower. Actually, it felt considerably faster when accelerating from very low rpms - making it smoother to drive in stop and go traffic. That's hardly surprising as at very low rpms the turbo of the 525d will not take effect. I agree that once the turbo kicks in, you feel significant accelearation in the 525d, though.
I also disagree that passangers do not hear acceleration in the 525d. Au contraire, when accelerating from any rpms, you can hardly hear the 523i, while you can definately hear that you are driving a diesel in the 525d in such situations.
Of course, you get better fuel economy with the diesel, and with the current diesel craze in Germany (mostly due to much lower taxes on diesel fuel), you get better leasing offers for diesels.
Still, I decided to go for the smoother and quieter drive, the 523i, even though it was more expensive. For me, these criteria are the whole point of driving a large car like the E60 (unfortunately I cannot afford a V8 yet :-))
01-02-2006, 01:15 PM
#42
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As I mentioned, my friend has a 525d and it is nowhere as good a performer as a regular 525i let alone a 530i with the new engines. The only reason to buy a 525d over the regular 525i is economy and depreciation to a smaller degree.
My friend has a 525d SE and he often picks me up on the way to the golf course (regular Saturday morning haunt even in the depths of winter
). On the way, there is a steep incline in the road and his diesel really struggles. You can here it chugging away trying to climb it and he often switches the aircon off to improve the performance (you don't have to switch the stereo off to tell its diesel however). To put it quite simply regardless of the torque, 177bhp is simply not enough. On the other hand my 530i takes the incline in its sleep and I could imagine a 525i with 218hp doing better than the 525d.
Don't get me wrong, BMW diesels such as the 530d and 535d are great performers but this simply does not translate to the current 525d. However deciding between the 530i or 530d was a tough choice for me and if I did a lot of mileage I would have gone with the diesel. I don't so the silky smoothness (even close to the red line I would like to add) of the petrol 6 cylinder sealed it for me.
Re the 535d, in the UK on price grounds alone you have to compare it to the V8 engined 540i as the both cost approx the same (in fact the 535d is a touch more expensive than the 540i). I believe that a 540i will hold its own in terms of performance against a 535d (although I havent made a direct comparison) and you get the added benefit of the smooth V8. You however get much better economy with the 535d and in Europe that is a huge consideration. If I lived in the US I would probably buy the 540i or 550i every-time over the diesel just on engine smoothness grounds alone.
My friend has a 525d SE and he often picks me up on the way to the golf course (regular Saturday morning haunt even in the depths of winter
). On the way, there is a steep incline in the road and his diesel really struggles. You can here it chugging away trying to climb it and he often switches the aircon off to improve the performance (you don't have to switch the stereo off to tell its diesel however). To put it quite simply regardless of the torque, 177bhp is simply not enough. On the other hand my 530i takes the incline in its sleep and I could imagine a 525i with 218hp doing better than the 525d. Don't get me wrong, BMW diesels such as the 530d and 535d are great performers but this simply does not translate to the current 525d. However deciding between the 530i or 530d was a tough choice for me and if I did a lot of mileage I would have gone with the diesel. I don't so the silky smoothness (even close to the red line I would like to add) of the petrol 6 cylinder sealed it for me.
Re the 535d, in the UK on price grounds alone you have to compare it to the V8 engined 540i as the both cost approx the same (in fact the 535d is a touch more expensive than the 540i). I believe that a 540i will hold its own in terms of performance against a 535d (although I havent made a direct comparison) and you get the added benefit of the smooth V8. You however get much better economy with the 535d and in Europe that is a huge consideration. If I lived in the US I would probably buy the 540i or 550i every-time over the diesel just on engine smoothness grounds alone.
01-02-2006, 02:13 PM
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01-02-2006, 02:25 PM
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Ahhh yes - they get bloody cheap cars and seriously cheap petrol - a pretty tasty trade off !!!!
01-03-2006, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by maylander739' post='213994' date='Dec 21 2005, 05:10 PM
I find that hard to beleive, bmw states the following:
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
Clearly diesel has more torque... Clearly 525d will do 50-75 in 6.5 seconds in fourth gear.
BUT why would someone want to do 50-75 in a petrol car in fourth gear?!? Just to mach diesel? This is simply bullshit. You place it in 3rd and will get much better timing, using the fact that the RPM interval of useable (lower than diesel's) torque is much larger, and power of engine is way bigger on the same interval than diesel's...
So can someone explain me why someone would want to compare in 4th gear such acceleration times?!? Why not in 3rd? Why not in 5th or 6th? Just because the diesel is best in a specific gear? Would the driver have his hands stuck on wheel and cannot change gears?
Or just because it is good for marketing?
01-03-2006, 05:00 AM
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I find that hard to beleive, bmw states the following:
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
Clearly diesel has more torque... Clearly 525d will do 50-75 in 6.5 seconds in fourth gear.
BUT why would someone want to do 50-75 in a petrol car in fourth gear?!? Just to mach diesel? This is simply bullshit. You place it in 3rd and will get much better timing, using the fact that the RPM interval of useable (lower than diesel's) torque is much larger, and power of engine is way bigger on the same interval than diesel's...
So can someone explain me why someone would want to compare in 4th gear such acceleration times?!? Why not in 3rd? Why not in 5th or 6th? Just because the diesel is best in a specific gear? Would the driver have his hands stuck on wheel and cannot change gears?
Or just because it is good for marketing?
[/quote]
This is exactly true... In 4th the 525d would win! These figures are a standard way of 'comparing' models (petrol and diesel), as well as the 0-62mph (0-100km/h) benchmark - they were not formulated to give one an 'advantage' over the other... It's not saying that the 525d is faster from 50-75 under all conditions...
01-03-2006, 05:47 AM
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My Ride: 07' 530d - M-Sport - Titanium Silver / Black Dakota leather
08' 120i - M-Sport - Alpine White III / Black Sensatec
Originally Posted by maylander739' post='213994' date='Dec 21 2005, 05:10 PM
I find that hard to beleive, bmw states the following:
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
Clearly diesel has more torque... Clearly 525d will do 50-75 in 6.5 seconds in fourth gear.
BUT why would someone want to do 50-75 in a petrol car in fourth gear?!? Just to mach diesel? This is simply bullshit. You place it in 3rd and will get much better timing, using the fact that the RPM interval of useable (lower than diesel's) torque is much larger, and power of engine is way bigger on the same interval than diesel's...
So can someone explain me why someone would want to compare in 4th gear such acceleration times?!? Why not in 3rd? Why not in 5th or 6th? Just because the diesel is best in a specific gear? Would the driver have his hands stuck on wheel and cannot change gears?
Or just because it is good for marketing?
[/quote]
And another truth is, it's more likely that you are in the fourth gear in 50mph than in the third gear. Then it will take you one extra second change gear and hit the pedal...
01-03-2006, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by big_ipaq' post='218615' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:38 PM
[quote name='maylander739' post='213994' date='Dec 21 2005, 05:10 PM']
I find that hard to beleive, bmw states the following:
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
I find that hard to beleive, bmw states the following:
BMW 525i 50-75 in fourth: 7.9 manual
BMW 525d 50-75 in fourth: 6.5 manual
The diesels only get better with more speed. And 1.4 seconds is a big difference. I know people will say that its because its in fourth, and the diesel has more torque, but still
Clearly diesel has more torque... Clearly 525d will do 50-75 in 6.5 seconds in fourth gear.
BUT why would someone want to do 50-75 in a petrol car in fourth gear?!? Just to mach diesel? This is simply bullshit. You place it in 3rd and will get much better timing, using the fact that the RPM interval of useable (lower than diesel's) torque is much larger, and power of engine is way bigger on the same interval than diesel's...
So can someone explain me why someone would want to compare in 4th gear such acceleration times?!? Why not in 3rd? Why not in 5th or 6th? Just because the diesel is best in a specific gear? Would the driver have his hands stuck on wheel and cannot change gears?
Or just because it is good for marketing?
[/quote]
And another truth is, it's more likely that you are in the fourth gear in 50mph than in the third gear. Then it will take you one extra second change gear and hit the pedal...
[/quote]
Indeed... I was going to say that the performance of a diesel is usually easier to access under most normal driving situations. If you're out for a thrash then the petrol will win but you have to work at it...
01-03-2006, 07:01 AM
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This would be true if diesels would not be turbo, and with exception of 535d all have some turbo lag. But, afterall this is a matter of taste. A BMW is a BMW regardless of what you feed it.