firebert

Thanks for the quick reply!

1) Yeah, in INPA 4F85 has descriptive text that specifically references the E clutch but no such luck on the others. I see a wide variety of gear changes implicated with the 4F86 code; "5 after 5" on 4F80.

2) Alright. Considering solenoids are $400 and I know what I'm getting into (I've already dropped the mechatronic once to replace the seals which to be honest I was kind of viewing as a dry-run for having to do the solenoids some day), I'm going to order a set and go for it in the next couple weeks.

I'll report back one way or another and hopefully we'll have another set of codes and success or failure story.

invisiblewave

It's been a while, but I finally got around to removing my valve body yesterday and, despite this being a Phaeton with a 6HP19A, I thought I'd report back with my findings in case it helps anybody else out.

My issue is a hard downshift from 4th to 3rd but only when the transmission is warm. At the suggestion of ZF, I rotated the solenoids to see if it moved or solved the problem. It didn't. However, I did discover some potentially interesting things.

The fluid was horrible. That acrid smell of the new fluid is all but gone in the old fluid, it's dark and dirty, and there was a metallic sludge on the magnets. This is a supposedly re-manufactured unit, bought from and fitted by a VW main dealer.

There were no rubber seals around the fluid channels on the transmission, and the bottoms of what looked like small springs were visible.

The main mating seal between the VB and the transmission was absolutely nothing like the one I bought and which ZF assured me was the same on the 6HP19A as on the other 6HP19 boxes. It was more like three seals stacked on top of one another, consequently I didn't change it.

I'm waiting for a response from the ZF helpdesk, hopefully with a useful suggestion. I'm leaning towards a fluid change.

Thanks for the great write-up Kyle, it was extremely useful.

firebert

Did the solenoids today with genuine ZF parts from Eriksson Industries (CTSC was out of stock). I'm doubt I'll have anything to say that hasn't been said before, but here were my observations, which I hope will help someone.

It is difficult to overstate how messy this job is. Having extra fluid on hand is a must. Don't buy one or two liters extra. If you don't want to be stressed, buy twice as much as you think you need. If you listen to ZF or Mike Miller, you will be doing the fluid again in 30-50k anyway so just buy extra and have it on the shelf.

If you're using jack stands, when you drop the mechatronic, you'll want to position yourself under it so you can lower it like you're bench-pressing it. It's fairly heavy, so you don't want to find out you don't have leverage to support it after you pull the last bolt. This brings us to another point: protect your orifices. Fluid WILL drip on/in them from a hundred tiny points on the mech. I had a drop land on my upper lip when both hands were occupied, roll up my nose, and down the back of my throat. Yuck.

Pro tip: The MSDS for LG6 says to ingest some powdered activated carbon (like used in aquariums). I ate a spoonful of that, processed in my coffee grinder, out of an abundance of caution. Fun times. Don't be like me. At least when you're directly under the dripping, wear a cheap face mask and eye protection.

The other pantshitting moment happened on the test drive. It was mostly going well, with somewhat rough shifting but only as expected. Then rolling down a hill, I let off the throttle, it downshifted for me, and from below the car a metal chattering sound... somewhere between the sound you get out of manual transmission synchros (I know, not truly applicable here) when they "grind" and a big zipper.

This happened a couple more times under similar circumstances. Oddly enough, the sound could be heard but nothing out of the ordinary could be felt on the drive. No other symptom, or trouble code. So just the sound.

I think what happened was I deformed one of the heatshields under the drive shaft (looking for access to the sealing sleeve) just enough so that the driveshaft or guibo or something was making contact, but only under certain circumstances e.g. downhill downshift w/ engine brake. After some panic I raised the car, and fussed with the heat shield, and it didn't happen again. So I hope that was it. I mean, is there any possible way just doing solenoids and fluid could immediately cause gear-grinding internal transmission trouble? I can't theorize a way. But who knows. These transmissions are complex beasts. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed over the next few weeks.

Anyway, that's the report. Thanks again for the help. I'll report back with an update on the tranny's health later.

KyleB

sounds like you did everything right other than the drinking of ATF part

rough shifting for the first few miles is totally normal, and by rough I mean ROUGH.

you probably have something contacting the driveshaft, I'd certainly check to be safe.

good luck, hope this resolves your problems.

txag_530i

firebert- This morning when I read your post I was laughing with you, not at you!

I used a jack, 2 x 4 and a clean micro-fiber towel to help raise and lower the Mechtronics. It still wasn't a fun job, and yes, I totally agree with having several extra quarts of fluid on hand. My last drain and fill I had two extra quarts and managed to spill one and have oil dripping out of the fill hose.

firebert

txag, you're a smarter man than I for using technology rather than muscle to drop the mechatronic.

After fussing with the heat-shields near the driveshaft, the pantshitting noise has not recurred at all. Huzzah!

One week and a few hundred miles down, and knock on wood I think all is well. Notably, the 2-1 downshift bump is gone both in D and DS (this was a big issue especially in D which made it nearly unusable). Shifting in general, and downshifting in particular (especially while coasting to a stop from any speed, or going downhill without throttle application) is much smoother. On the negative side of the ledger, reverse sometimes still seems to sometimes take a couple seconds to engage after selecting R, and the lag while pulling away from a stop is still intermittently present. I can live this those things as on the whole, the transmission seems to be operating so much better and (I hope) has been granted a stay of execution, whichI hope lasts at least as long as my relationship with the vehicle.

To recap for those just joining us: 2006 325i, 91k miles, symptom list:

2-1 downshift jolt when coasting to a stop (in D only, not DS)
Intermittent delayed engagement of reverse (2-3 seconds after selecting R)
Intermittent delayed take off from a stop
Intermittent jolt/rough shift applying light throttle while coasting
Transmission fail safe (once, with code 4F85)
Transmission fluid leak

Code list:

4F86
4F80
4F85

Outcome:

Replacing mechatronic sleeve stopped an obvious leak but did not resolve other symptoms. Replacing bridge seal, four other seals, fluid and pan did not resolve other symptoms (but probably addressed the fact that I was low on fluid due to sleeve leak). Replacing solenoids resolved most symptoms completely (see above for details).

Hope that helps someone.

Thank again to all and especially KyleB!

firebert

Also, KyleB, if you ever find yourself in Maui, let me know: I owe you a beer!

donnyriz

Kyle B! Solenoid swap completed a little over 2 months ago. No returning codes yet! Keeping my fingers crossed though (hoping the indy I paid $200 labor to didnt cut any corners...)

Probably because everything is fresh in there now, now I'm noticing a hard shift from 2 to 3. It's fairly consistent at that point. I feel like thats the same point I was getting my old code (4F83), so I hope this is not indicative of a back clutch pack there.,,,

BTW, Does anyone one know the Proper step-by-step learn in procedure? The one that you are supposed to do when you buy the car new. I read it one time online, but haven't been able to find it since. Involved many steps that were supposed to be done over something like a month or so...

Thanks again KyleB, I owe you a beer too

KyleB

If you haven't gotten any faults in 2 months, I'd take that as a pretty good sign. The hard shift could very well be from wear in that drum or something actually internal to the valve body (accumulator, piston, etc), or EGS could still be learning your driving/shift habits. If it's not registering faults and not leaving you stranded, I wouldn't worry about it. How many miles are on the car? These cars are getting old and I think that the occasional hiccup is anything to worry about. that's just my $.02

The only reset procedure for EGS that I'm aware of is resetting adaptations, which can be done with INPA or the supposed 'press the accelerator for 25 seconds' trick. I have no idea if the accelerator trick actually does anything; google it and I'm sure you'll find something about it.

invisiblewave

Here's a link to the Phaeton thread with the drive adaptation procedure: VWVortex.com - Phaeton 3.2 FWD transmission problem

It's the 4WD version, but I'm guessing adaptation is the same. FWIW, I think it's pretty useless, I've tried it a few times and never noticed any difference. I've reset the controller both electronically and with the pedal, hard to say whether either actually did a reset since there doesn't appear to be any way to tell. There's also a LOT of info on this transmission in the Phaeton forum, especially around alternative fluids and flashing the controller to use LG8. Not many there are brave enough to do much more than a fluid change though, I think I'm the only one who's tried swapping solenoids.