pharding

Without a doubt the worst part of acquiring a new BMW is the leasing experience. BMWFS is great to deal EXCEPT during the purchase process. They will not answer any questions about the lease numbers or the math. They politely refer the loyal BMW enthusiast to discuss that with the dealer. The dealer typically obfuscates about how the lease numbers are arrived at because they know that the math is extremely complicated and that the typical customer would never check the math. The result even with a reputable dealer are higher monthly payments even if you agree that that you as the customer are getting the "BMWFS buy rate". BMW Enthusiasts on this web site and others always evaluate the deal based upon dollars over invoice. But the big difference in any lease deal is in the lease itself and how the numbers are both input and calculated. On my first lease in 2001 for a Euro Delivery 530 I negotiated a reasonable deal only to get screwed on the lease. The residual in their calculations was incorrectly based upon ED MSRP. The car was turned in the US so the residual should have been based upon US MSRP. The difference over the life of the lease was approximately $2,500! I complained repeatedly to BMW FS about this and I was politely ignored. It was only after I posted on every BMW Enthusiast message board that they finally sent a letter to dealers to crack down on what was a universal scam in Chicago area dealers and probably elsewhere. They directed the dealers to calculate residual value based upon US MSRP and Euro Del MSRP. Did I get my money back? No. They claimed that they could not do anything about it. On my fourth BMW lease I am still going through the mud wrestling with dealers to get the "buy rate" with the current 5 series owner loyalty incentive and clear math to check their numbers. BMW FS is doing their usual "we can't help you just work out the math with the dealers who are trying to maximize their profit". The best tool that I have found is Lease Wizard software but it is still a big struggle to deal with BMW dealers to do the math in a transparent manner.

My patience with BMW is wearing thin. Including the current transactions being negotiated I and my business have paid for 6 BMW leases since 2001. If I can't be treated better this time around I am going to shift over to MB or Audi. I have better things to do than debate lease numbers with BMW dealers.

BOBUCRUZ

Sorry to hear about your battles with BMW Dealers. Coming from the purchase and service side, I can emphasize with you. However, one thing I can likely assume is this type of negative treatment is industry wide, not specific to BMW. Sure many other car companies don't offer ED, but sales guys are sales guys, and can really care less if the math or monthly payment is accurate, along as their commission check is fat. Good Luck...

kscarrol

I would tend to agree. I have several friends w/ MB's who fight the same battles when they renew their leases. One is a woman who gets the old "honey you don't know how to do the math" when in fact she has her MBA and knows the math a heck of a lot better than they do! Frankly the vast majority of buyers are soley focused on the monthly payment and whether they can afford it. Dealer throws out a number they can handle and the deal is done. They never look beneath at the math to realize that they are being screwed.

As frustrating as it is for you Pharding, you are definitely in the minority in how you negotiate over the details of the lease.

aqkhan6us

Even though most of the times I do not finance (pay cash), I never had / will never have good experience in buying the cars and I check with other people and most say the same and some go with the flow and do not care. There are sales guy with experience and training how to use /abuse the system and customers. They do not disclose, there is always fine print and they blame us.

I even had experience that they did not honor the $ #s written/initialled by them and the main manager did not help either. They told me I can leave my custom order car and they will refund my deposit, when I went to pick up the car after long wait.

So I realised and say to myself, It does not matter how smart you are they are more experienced and deal the customers everyday, they will get your money somewhere and the main Company sutomer service wont help saying that we do not have control in some areas over the dealers actions.

papereyes

Wholheartly agreed with you, in the UK dealers are required by law to provide us with the APR so we can at least understand the payment options.

I got 5.8% from my bank, and BMW finance were trying to offer me a finance option, i asked what the APR was and they said 7.5%!!!
they then said they coudl offer me 6.2% and i asked what kind of deal would they offer me (i.e. disocunt on the car more options)

Dealer said to me "err, nothing", so i said, your asking me to pay more money to you and your not going to even offer me some kind of incentive!

got no time when it comes to finance offered by dealers (unless its 0%)!

hinckley

I've both leased and purchased cars. At the end of the day though, there's only one number that counts - the final payment (whether it's the monthly lease payment, the monthly financing payment or the lump sum up front payment). Knowing the details of the math always helps (I'm a CPA and love it when someone tries to "explain" the math to me).

But my best luck at keeping dealers honest is to simply shop as many dealers as possible for that final payment. These days with the internet and e-mail is pretty easy to find the lowest price for what's just a commodity product. Once you find it, it's then up to you whether you want to give your preferred dealer the chance to match it.

Anyway, just one person's perspective.

Hormazd

Paul,

I am sorry that you are going through this. I made note of one of your recent posts and went in yesterday to order my car. My dealer has always shown honesty and integrity (probably the only one in the LA area). They know I understand the math. The four numbers that count. MSRP (the higher the better because this what depreciation is calculated on) Purchase price and residual (this is what rental is calculated on) and finally MF which is where most dealers try and screw you. I locked in .018 as per your post.

They only have one 550i which I drove. Clearly they want to make money on these early cars so the price I paid was acceptable to me. Mine is being ordered because I want a 6spd. With BMWFS adding back .007 to MF for ED, cost savings of ED are only about $50 per month. Stick to your guns.

Hormazd

PS. I just got my CIP upgraded and an oil change. I could go another year in my car but it makes no sense to pay registratrion and extend the lease.

pharding

It is great to her from my friend Hormazd. We still need to play golf in LA hopefully this fall. My son lives in LA.

The money factor bump for European Delivery is .003, not .007.

Hormazd

I would take that post to the bank, but no ED this time for me. I can just see you drooling at the Welt. As an architect I would say just going to that building would be a legitimate business expense. Paul I really doubt that you will enjoy an MB. Audi, maybe. Get over this transaction and you will be back appreciating the free maintenance, CIP upgrades new tires and rest that BMW offers that you pay through the nose for with other manufacturers. Not to mention the drive.