tume

If you have any advice in this problem, please help.

Here is the story:

While serving in Kosovo I took my car to a local BMW service in Skopje, Macedonia (we kept our cars in Skopje) last October to fix three scratches / paint transfers I had in the paintwork. I told them to be very careful with the car since I don't want any scratches or swirlmarks. They assured me, but later I became worried when I got email saying they need to polish the whole car because by polishing they can get rid of 95% of the marks (but not scratches of course) and see those spots better. I replied that I don't really think polishing is needed, but they insisted on it. They quoted 250? for the whole job.

I had washed my car by hand prior the service in Greece just weeks ago and paintwork was absolutely flawless (despite those three spots of course), and it had zero swirlmarks.

Early November my friend picked up the car from the service (I couldn't because I was working in Kosovo) and drove it to our car park (in Skopje also) to my spot. He didn't inspect the car thoroughly, just agreed that those scratches had been fixed.

November 8th, when my term in Kosovo ended, I went to our car park and saw my car for the first time after the service. It was early in the morning and it had rained, so there was a lot of moisture in the car's surface. I checked the car quickly and agreed that those scratches were gone and it looked like a professional job. I had only like 5 minutes to do this because lot of my co-soldiers were starting their journey back to Finland and I had to move also.

We did a roadtrip through Europe which took two weeks. While we were in Germany I had a chance to use Internet, and I made a mistake and wrote a message to BMW Skopje service that it looks like they did a first class job and I'm happy.
I washed the car in Finland when the first possibility came (December 3rd). Washing took place in an indoor hall with very powerful lightning. I washed it by hand and dried the surface as I was about to wax the car for the first time. Then I saw the swirlmarks in the paint surface. They were all over the car, in some places more intense, and it was clear some polishing machine had done them since the marks were orbital. Paint surface looked so horrible it almost made me cry. Those marks were intense and it was easy to see them from every angle and even far away. I realised that BMW "service" in Skopje had ruined my paintwork and they made more harm than good to my car. Needless to say, I didn't wax my car and I left it like it was.

Let me clarify this: I knew before purchasing this vehicle how BMW uses environmentally friendly paints nowadays and since my car is Jet Black, the swirls and scratches show very easily. Therefore, I have been very very anal with my car, no one else has never washed my car and I always wash with hand (in straight motions from front to back) to avoid any swirls. And, like I said before, it had zero swirl marks before the service. The car was only four months old when I took it to this "service".

After seeing the swirls I immediately contacted the boss of BMW Skopje service with email. I received a reply saying that they don't know what has happened to the car after the service but it was OK after leaving the service. He also highlighted the point that I already told them they did a good job and car looked fine.

I replied them telling that absolutely nothing has happened to the car after the service, I simply drove it to Finland and washed it by hand. I also told them that in order to notice any swirlmarks these conditions have to be met, and car has to be:

1) Completely clean
2) Completely dry
3) Under powerful lightning (preferably indoors)

Not any of these conditions were met when I picked up the car.

Since this reply I have called several times to that same boss and emailed him. He has asked me to sent photos of the car taken before the service and photos of the swirlmarks. I have delivered him photos from my Greece vacation when I washed the car, photos I took when I first saw the car after the service (where you can see lot of water in the surface), and photos I took with my friend of the swirlmarks with a digital system camera.
Later we agreed (my idea) that I should take the car to a local BMW dealership and have them wash and dry the car and inspect it thoroughly. Paint specialist in my local BMW service inspected the car and agreed that these marks couldn't have come anywhere else but from intense polishing. He contacted personally the boss in BMW Skopje service and suggested they should pay back the amount I paid for their "service" (250?), so I could take the car to a local paintshop and have them polish the car and try to get rid of the marks. I'm willing to settle what I paid, at 250?, although I doubt this amount would be enough to do this job in Finland (due to expensive labour). I also know that they could never get rid of all these marks and therefore the paintwork will never be quite the same it was before the service.

But they don't agree to refund my money.

I contacted BMW International in Germany in December, and have since emailed them and called many times to Germany. They believe me 100% but they said there is nothing they can do as I have to try to settle this matter with BMW Skopje.

These international calls alone have cost me a lot. Not to mention the time and effort I have put to pursue this matter. I have told this boss many times that why would I go through all this hassle if I wasn't 100% certain that they did screw up my paintwork. Why would I make this up? It hasn't been fun for me, that is for sure.

After all these efforts I got an email from this boss today telling A) they won't refund my money telling the same thing all over again: "Your vehicle leaved our workshop without paint scratches and swirl marks, so we are not going to pay you polishing the vehicle in your local paint shop or refund the money you have paid."

This made me very frustrated and angry. He has clearly ignored all the phonecalls and emails I have sent to him (stating my point about conditions when I picked the car) or he is a complete idiot.
I tried to call them today and secretary said that the boss won't talk to me anymore. I have always talked to him reasonably: I have never used any curse words or anything to show my temper. I don't know what to do anymore so I decided to post the facts here.

I can tell from my expriences that BMW Skopje is very unprofessional. My friend took his E39 530d there to fix a few spots and they did two major scratches to his car in the service! They agreed to fix them since they were so visible. My friend also saw that they took out my car from the BMW service with a trailer, probably to some third-party paintshop to do to the work. And the fact that the boss barely speaks english at all in the phone. I just hope that they would lose their BMW licence.



I have worked so hard for this car, it took all my savings and I served abroad one year in Kosovo to get a tax-free car. I have always taken very good care of my car. So you can see it's a special car for me, and now when I see that a certified BMW service ruins my paintwork and is walking away with it.. it just seems so wrong and you can just imagine how frustrated I'm and how much red I'm seeing at the moment. Goddamn it.

What should I do next? Contacting Consumer Ombudsman in Finnish Consumer Agency won't help because Macedonia is not in EU. BMW International doesn't seem to be of help, either. Anyway, I want my money back one way or the other.

Any advice will be highly appreciated.. Quite lenghty post, thank you for reading it. I hope that I can solve this matter or I will start to lose it like Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

You can find pictures here.

JSpira

I don't think there is much you can do.

Since you knew the conditions for inspecting the car and you e-mailed the workshop about your satisfaction with the job before inspecting the car under these conditions, they are correct in referring to this corrspondence.

Once the car left their care, anything "could" have happened to it they will contend.

You are better off investing your time and money (from international phone calls) in getting a good detailer to fix the damage.

subarashi

Unfortunately, I agree. There's not much left to do. You can't prove it and they can't disprove it but there's no way for them to refund your money now as they have that email from you.

I have had a similar experience here in the US with my car. I took it in to have some very minor rock chips addressed on my bumper. The SA sent me to the local bodyshop [on the BMW lot], which is owned by Northpoint Auto. They are a BMW Certified and Approved Body Shop with plaques everywhere. They charged my insurance 1700 bucks to fix the front bumper and some chips on the bonnet. I get the car back and it was a rainy day, it looked fine. Within a few days, I start to notice areas where the paint has not even been properly cured [bumps in the paint], and swirl marks like you wouldn't believe. I took it back, yelled at the guys and they did it over again...but six weeks later, here we are again and I am seeing areas that are terrible.

I took it to the best body shop in town then and had them look at it. With a UV light, you could see where the base coat had not been put down right on the primer, the clear coat had not been properly applied [there were frozen plastic drops on the door hinges], and the paint looked totally uneven. I had it done right and sent the pix to BMW NA with a long letter but to no avail. I have given up fighting, just learnt better and have spread the word to the local BBB and as far and wide as I can. You better believe my SA and my Service Dept Manager heard about it.. I was [and still am] pissed off..

Long story short, though, your energy and time are better served in going and buying some good products and seeing if you can clay out the swirls and re do the beauty of your car. I know how you feel and you will feel ten times better once you spend your energy into making the car look whole again. After your car is clean..... Devote the remainder of your energy to telling everyone else to stay away from that dealership......

pukka

I feel for ya. But it seems the only thing you can do is cut your losses and learn the tough lesson from this.

If it makes you feel any better, yesterday I brought my BMW to the vehicle shipping point so it can begin its journey stateside. I pretty much knew about all of the tiny chip marks on the car from having stuff hit it while driving 100mph plus. What surprised me was the inspectors pointed out several tiny imperfections in the paint (small pin like bubbles under the clear coat). I've seen this before in private body shops where the cars were manually painted - but I've never seen this on a car coming off an assembly line. No sense arguing with BMW about it since I've already had the car for several months.

Just wait until you get the car back to the states where you can get a U.S. body shop to do the work right and you will have the time to check it out yourself.

tuco

I agree with the comments above of JSpira. Too bad, but little you can do now.

wantmye90

I have a thought on this. At the time you dropped off the car to have the work done, I think the dealership would have noted on the work order and in the email to you that they had found existing swirl marks on the car. Why?, because you were asking them to work on the paint. For a dealer not to point out existing damage would be a potential liability to them. So their failure to note that basically helps you to prove that the car was swirl-less at the time they took possession of the car.

Next, they emailed you to ask if they could polish the entire car for a fee. Again, they made no note about existing swirl marks. Not noting any damage, and then doing this type work over the entire car, I think, only implicates them. They did a job that you paid for, that has a very high risk of directly causing this very type of damage. Yes you did take possession of the car and yes you did comment to them that the job was done right, but that was based on your impressions in less than ideal conditions.

Why would you want to re-polish the car after having just paid them to do it? And why would you do another polish job yourself after telling them that they did a good job? Doesn't make sense. Not logical.

If I were you, I would: 1. keep detailed written notes about all details starting from day one related to this for future reference. 2. document all the damage with a digital camera. 3. Take the car to a trusted body shop and get a written estimate from them to fully repair the paint. Have their paint expert document, in writting, his findings of the damage... what caused it, how bad, etc. 3. Mail a copy of the estimate along with a CD of the photos BY CERTIFIED MAIL and a professionally written and firmly worded letter asking for full payment to cover the repair work in full. 4. Send this certified mail to the dealership's owner, and also additional certified letters copied to the general manager and service manager. Certified letters will get their attention. 4. Tell them that if you do not receive the check within 2 weeks, you will be filling against them in small claims court. Follow through with that threat if they do not mail that check.

If the dealership is smart, they will recognize that you are professional, have a good argument, and are not going to go away. They will reason that it would be less painful for them to pay you off rather than having to hire an attorney and to take the time to defend themselves in court.

If you firmly believe they screwed up your car, then give them hell. Fight it and don't take no for an answer. I am not an attorney, but I am a smart consumer and I know how to win situations like this without having to get in a fight. It is really about showing them you mean business and if they call your bluff, take them to court. When you do, they will settle. GOOD LUCK!

andy545

You are applying a legal procedure that exists in the US. but has nothing to do or even compares with over here. The owner is in Finland, the dealer in a non EU country 2K miles away.

Like the other member said, it's game over from a legal standpoint.

westcoast550

Send member FMINUS a PM and get his reco on a procedure to correct your paint problem. The most important thing is to get your car fixed.My sense is if you push hard enough, BMW will assist in some way........... just be polite and professional........... Good Luck !!

tume

Thank you guys (and especially wantmye90 for tips) for all the support & sympathy.. feel better already.

Yes, indeed I'm finnish and Macedonia (or FYROM) is not in EU and the distance between is few thousand km's. We were told that if someone crashes to your car in Macedonia you have to be in the court the next day. So that much for taking this matter to court. Anyway, it's a poor country with a very different culture (also many other things I would like to say about the country but I won't).. traffic is a chaos and it's like "every man for themselves". Probably the poverty has something to do with their unwillingness to refund my money.

So.. OK, fuck them, I will never get a dime from them. No good sending them letters or anything, and I really don't want to have anything to do with them anymore. What amazes me is why the boss asked me to deliver all pictures and take it to a local BMW dealership to confirm the damage etc. to see all this effort just to receive same friggin' answer I got from them in the first place.

It is not in my character to give up easily, especially when it comes to things like this.. And it's not all about getting the money back, it's getting someone to claim responsibility of their actions. It's about justice and customer care.

Maybe I could contact Consumer Ombudsman in finnish Consumer Agency to address BMW Germany (International)? Long shot, but worth trying maybe?