530i Deceptive Sales Practice?
02-24-2006, 06:21 PM
#11
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Honestly, if you're going to be upset at anyone, it should be yourself Buyer beware. You could have bothered to do a little research ahead of time. Honestly, who goes into a car dealership believing its the car salesman's responsibility to hold your hand? Unless he specifically said, "this brochure absolutely matches this car", I don't see what recourse you have.
I hope everything works out, but next time take some responsibility and do some research.
I hope everything works out, but next time take some responsibility and do some research.
Originally Posted by kehenaguy' post='245583' date='Feb 24 2006, 03:11 PM
I need your advice to see if you think the sales practice of my car was deceptive and if I should demand a full refund.
Found a 2006 530i at a dealer here in Southern California over the weekend. Drove it, read the brochures while I was at the dealership, bought it.
Next to the regular BMW sticker on the window was a "BMC Center Installed Options" list which indicated floor mats, permaplate, and Lojack.
Being from Minnesota, I thought Permaplate was some type of rust proofing underbody coat. A rip off I thought, but that's life. When in the finance office I was overed "teflon coating" for the interior & exterior". I bought it not realizing it was the same as permaplate.
The dealer detailed the car and I took delivery after waiting about an hour.
As the sales guy was given me the orientation, I asked why it didn't have the start/stop button. He hold me not all of the 530i's had them. I shrugged my shoulders.
When I got home I was reading the window sticker and it indicated floor mats were standard. So I began to wonder why I was being charged $155 for floor mats.
I called the sales guy today. He told me floor mats were standard and I wasn't charged. I asked him about the Start/Stop button and he said only newer 2006's have it. I told him I thought this was deceptive marketing since the sales brochure indicates it's standard. I began to wonder what else I was missing.
Well, if I wasn't charged extra for the floor mats, I began to wonder about the LoJack. Called him back. He told me no, you don't have LoJack. This is when I lost it. I told him the sticker on the window clearly indicated it had LoJack and this was definately deceptive marketing bordering on fraud. He told me he had no idea what sticker I was talking about, that they get cars from many dealers with stickers that don't mean anything. At this point I told him I had lost all confidence and wanted a full refund. He said California doesn't provide for a cooling off period and the contract stands as it is.
Well I faxed him the BMW Installed Options sticker and they're suddently having a change of heart. They'll install a LoJack at no cost to me as a "courtesy". He said the sticker indicated what options were "available".
But I'm still upset. Not knowing about the plate with the production date at the time, I just checked it now. It's June 2005! This new car is nine months old. You could argue that its still new since it only had 100 miles on it, but I'm upset because it's not the car they are now advertising and marketing. And this whole fiasco with the Installed Options sticker just pisses me off.
Am I out of line for insisting on a full refund? Besides the Start/Stop button, are there any other changes from June 2005 to now?
Found a 2006 530i at a dealer here in Southern California over the weekend. Drove it, read the brochures while I was at the dealership, bought it.
Next to the regular BMW sticker on the window was a "BMC Center Installed Options" list which indicated floor mats, permaplate, and Lojack.
Being from Minnesota, I thought Permaplate was some type of rust proofing underbody coat. A rip off I thought, but that's life. When in the finance office I was overed "teflon coating" for the interior & exterior". I bought it not realizing it was the same as permaplate.
The dealer detailed the car and I took delivery after waiting about an hour.
As the sales guy was given me the orientation, I asked why it didn't have the start/stop button. He hold me not all of the 530i's had them. I shrugged my shoulders.
When I got home I was reading the window sticker and it indicated floor mats were standard. So I began to wonder why I was being charged $155 for floor mats.
I called the sales guy today. He told me floor mats were standard and I wasn't charged. I asked him about the Start/Stop button and he said only newer 2006's have it. I told him I thought this was deceptive marketing since the sales brochure indicates it's standard. I began to wonder what else I was missing.
Well, if I wasn't charged extra for the floor mats, I began to wonder about the LoJack. Called him back. He told me no, you don't have LoJack. This is when I lost it. I told him the sticker on the window clearly indicated it had LoJack and this was definately deceptive marketing bordering on fraud. He told me he had no idea what sticker I was talking about, that they get cars from many dealers with stickers that don't mean anything. At this point I told him I had lost all confidence and wanted a full refund. He said California doesn't provide for a cooling off period and the contract stands as it is.
Well I faxed him the BMW Installed Options sticker and they're suddently having a change of heart. They'll install a LoJack at no cost to me as a "courtesy". He said the sticker indicated what options were "available".
But I'm still upset. Not knowing about the plate with the production date at the time, I just checked it now. It's June 2005! This new car is nine months old. You could argue that its still new since it only had 100 miles on it, but I'm upset because it's not the car they are now advertising and marketing. And this whole fiasco with the Installed Options sticker just pisses me off.
Am I out of line for insisting on a full refund? Besides the Start/Stop button, are there any other changes from June 2005 to now?
02-24-2006, 07:06 PM
#12
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I also bought an 06 pre-Sept. "dealer stock" E60 without Start/Stop button.
Here is some fact that you should feel good about: The sticker price for our cars were less than post-Sept cars
. Post Sept build = $700-$800 more in base price :thumbsdown: . I may have the grille swapped out later but I don't miss the Start/Stop button at all, only make sense if it were a keyless.
Floor mats are standard, If you paid 155 extra, you should get an extra set
LoJack & clear coat are dealer options. You should get them if they are actually paid for.
Btw, enjoy your new ride
.
Here is some fact that you should feel good about: The sticker price for our cars were less than post-Sept cars
. Post Sept build = $700-$800 more in base price :thumbsdown: . I may have the grille swapped out later but I don't miss the Start/Stop button at all, only make sense if it were a keyless.Floor mats are standard, If you paid 155 extra, you should get an extra set
LoJack & clear coat are dealer options. You should get them if they are actually paid for.
Btw, enjoy your new ride
.
02-24-2006, 09:15 PM
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My Ride: 2005 530i JETBLACK/BLACK DAKOTA, COLD WEATHER PKG, PREMIUM PKG, ADAPTIVE XENON HEADLIGHTS, AUTO TRANSMISSION WITH 6 SPEED STEPTRONIC, BLUETOOTH SETUP,SAT SETUP AND WIFE AS CO-PILOT
[quote name='mario.kwok' date='Feb 24 2006, 03:18 PM' post='245585']
You better check the version of engine you have the 231hp(old) and 258hp(new) is a big difference.
[/quot
all this time i thought i only had 220 hp...wow!! anyways like everyone here...enjoy the car!!..just be thankful you have no major problems with your car right now... by the way what dealership is this?? eric d
You better check the version of engine you have the 231hp(old) and 258hp(new) is a big difference.
[/quot
all this time i thought i only had 220 hp...wow!! anyways like everyone here...enjoy the car!!..just be thankful you have no major problems with your car right now... by the way what dealership is this?? eric d
02-24-2006, 10:42 PM
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My Ride: 2008 M5 -- Exterior: Silverstone, Interior: Black. Fully Loaded. That just about sums it up! :-)
First Off, I'd like to say congratulations on your E60
Second, I'd like to say that the dealer wasn't fully truthful with you. Deception? Yes. Should you have done more investigation? Sure, but now we're in the present and let's see what can be done.
1) Here in the Silicon Valley area the price of LoJack is $295 for the basic LoJack part and $448 for the Installation. I'm not here to begin a discussion on whether this price is high or low, just simply to state what one of dealers here is charging. What did the sticker price say the cost of LoJack was?
2) Not sure how effective this is with cars but when it came to an electronic device I bought in the past (TV set) the advertisement was misleading and the store wouldn't take the item back. I had to call the Better Business Bureau and that changed things. Maybe try and contact the Better Business Bureau.
IMHO the "NO Cooling Off Period" implies that you don't get cold feet and decide that you don't want the car. In your situation you WANT an E60; however, what you thought you were buying wasn't what you got. This is different than what the "No Cooling Off Period" was intended for.
Don't let the dealer get off the hook this easy. These guys aren't practicing good business and they shouldn't be getting away with this sort of behavior.
Good Luck,
-CoolTones
Second, I'd like to say that the dealer wasn't fully truthful with you. Deception? Yes. Should you have done more investigation? Sure, but now we're in the present and let's see what can be done.
1) Here in the Silicon Valley area the price of LoJack is $295 for the basic LoJack part and $448 for the Installation. I'm not here to begin a discussion on whether this price is high or low, just simply to state what one of dealers here is charging. What did the sticker price say the cost of LoJack was?
2) Not sure how effective this is with cars but when it came to an electronic device I bought in the past (TV set) the advertisement was misleading and the store wouldn't take the item back. I had to call the Better Business Bureau and that changed things. Maybe try and contact the Better Business Bureau.
IMHO the "NO Cooling Off Period" implies that you don't get cold feet and decide that you don't want the car. In your situation you WANT an E60; however, what you thought you were buying wasn't what you got. This is different than what the "No Cooling Off Period" was intended for.
Don't let the dealer get off the hook this easy. These guys aren't practicing good business and they shouldn't be getting away with this sort of behavior.
Good Luck,
-CoolTones
02-25-2006, 12:57 AM
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My $.02 - people are being a little hard on you...
Lojack is relatively less important since BMW assist can locate the car if stolen. Probably not as integrated or reliable as Lojack but you should know this if it helps with any decision. There is a common misconception that the e60 does not have this feature. It started in 2005 and I have the insurance certificate to prove it - for a discount which you probably get in CA (not here in "safe" NC).
I can't believe that CA does not have a cooling off period. That really amazes me. It also amazes me that the dealer wouldn't consider a return if it was within 72 hours. NC I guess has stronger consumer protection laws....
Start/stop - who cares.
June 2005 - Not a big deal - you got a better price than you would have. Guesstimate that it takes 3 months to get to a dealer's lot in CA and that it was the end of June - it was only there for 4-5 months. I know I am rationalizing a bit but it isn't as bad as it sounds.
My final note. I grew up in many places including mostly Long Island. I always felt people were trying to rip you off in SoCal more than anywhere else. Money is/was (I was there in 93) paramount. I think you have to hold on to your wallet more than other places. This isn't Kansas.... Why in this era of crazy real estate prices do people choose to move there I will never know. Traffic, cost, crime, no history/culture, smog, bad schools ... ok I'll stop.
Lojack is relatively less important since BMW assist can locate the car if stolen. Probably not as integrated or reliable as Lojack but you should know this if it helps with any decision. There is a common misconception that the e60 does not have this feature. It started in 2005 and I have the insurance certificate to prove it - for a discount which you probably get in CA (not here in "safe" NC).
I can't believe that CA does not have a cooling off period. That really amazes me. It also amazes me that the dealer wouldn't consider a return if it was within 72 hours. NC I guess has stronger consumer protection laws....
Start/stop - who cares.
June 2005 - Not a big deal - you got a better price than you would have. Guesstimate that it takes 3 months to get to a dealer's lot in CA and that it was the end of June - it was only there for 4-5 months. I know I am rationalizing a bit but it isn't as bad as it sounds.
My final note. I grew up in many places including mostly Long Island. I always felt people were trying to rip you off in SoCal more than anywhere else. Money is/was (I was there in 93) paramount. I think you have to hold on to your wallet more than other places. This isn't Kansas.... Why in this era of crazy real estate prices do people choose to move there I will never know. Traffic, cost, crime, no history/culture, smog, bad schools ... ok I'll stop.
02-25-2006, 04:52 AM
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My Ride: 520d M-sport - Steptronic - Carbon Black - Auburn Leather - Mem Seat - Cup Holders - Nav Pro - Light Pack - Dim/folding mirrors - Adv Airco - PDC - Aux/in - Non-smoke pack - De-badged - Delivery Mar 31, 2006
Hey kehenaguy, don't worry, I am sure your heart spoke when you saw and drove the car.
I know, sometimes you should be able to skip the sales guy and directly get on with the purchase, since many of the sales guys don't really know the cars like real owners do !
Always when I talk to a car salesman, I feel like I have to drag the info out of them while here on this forum it is all available.
Perhaps stickers with the slogan "Consult Forums.E60.net to help guide you buying this car" would have been more informative
I know, sometimes you should be able to skip the sales guy and directly get on with the purchase, since many of the sales guys don't really know the cars like real owners do !
Always when I talk to a car salesman, I feel like I have to drag the info out of them while here on this forum it is all available.
Perhaps stickers with the slogan "Consult Forums.E60.net to help guide you buying this car" would have been more informative
02-25-2006, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JStraw' post='245698' date='Feb 24 2006, 07:09 PM
The regular BMW sticker is called the Monroney Sticker. It should show the base price, the manufacturer?s installed options with the manufacturer?s suggested retail price, the manufacturer?s transportation charge, and the fuel economy (mileage). Affixed to the car window, this label is required by federal law, and may be removed only by the purchaser.
Dealer Sticker Price, usually on a supplemental sticker, is the Monroney sticker price plus the suggested retail price of dealer-installed options, such as additional dealer markup (ADM) or additional dealer profit (ADP), dealer preparation, and undercoating.
If there is anything on these stickers that are not actually in the car (like the LoJack you mentioned), then the dealer is violating the law. You can contact the Federal Trade Commission, your State's Attorney, and the BBB and get remediation.
Why do you think they agreed to install the Lojack for free after the fact??
Dealer Sticker Price, usually on a supplemental sticker, is the Monroney sticker price plus the suggested retail price of dealer-installed options, such as additional dealer markup (ADM) or additional dealer profit (ADP), dealer preparation, and undercoating.
If there is anything on these stickers that are not actually in the car (like the LoJack you mentioned), then the dealer is violating the law. You can contact the Federal Trade Commission, your State's Attorney, and the BBB and get remediation.
Why do you think they agreed to install the Lojack for free after the fact??
02-25-2006, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 300TTto545' post='245799' date='Feb 25 2006, 01:57 AM
My final note. I grew up in many places including mostly Long Island. I always felt people were trying to rip you off in SoCal more than anywhere else. Money is/was (I was there in 93) paramount. I think you have to hold on to your wallet more than other places. This isn't Kansas.... Why in this era of crazy real estate prices do people choose to move there I will never know. Traffic, cost, crime, no history/culture, smog, bad schools ... ok I'll stop.
Thanks everyone else for your comments. I agree with everyone -- it's a nice car!
02-25-2006, 01:14 PM
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My Ride: 2001 BMW330ci, Steel Gray, Black leather, Steptronic, PP, SP, PDC, Heated seats, Xenon head lights, HK, 6 disk changer, OEM alarm, OEM clears,Iice white fog lights ,Universal trasnciver, 17 inch Michelin Pilot Sport Tires
2005 530i Titanium Gray,Black leather, Nav.,HUD,PP,CWP,SP,PDC,Xenon lights,Steptronic,Logic 7 sound system,,Fold down read seats,Power shades
ON ORDER
IMHO anybody thats gets Lojack or lets the dealer put it in no matter what the cost is foolish.BMW Assist uses the same basic stolen car tracking and you get the other things that Lojack doesnot provide,(read the book).Sure you get the first year free and then its up to you if you want to keep it at additional cost. Good luck in what ever you choose I hope your car never gets stolen.
cheers
vern
PS I'm in the process of buying a X3 All I need is a color choice,all the options,price and European Delivery are taken care of.
When I told the CA I wanted SP the first thing he said to me was are you sure you want that option because if you are buying a SAV with the SP you take away the full advantage of the SAV handling in the snow .I said I realize that but I still want it. The CA went over everything on the X3 with me and I appreicated that.My point being that if the orginal posters CA did that for him he wouldn't be feeling the way he does.
cheers
vern
PS I'm in the process of buying a X3 All I need is a color choice,all the options,price and European Delivery are taken care of.
When I told the CA I wanted SP the first thing he said to me was are you sure you want that option because if you are buying a SAV with the SP you take away the full advantage of the SAV handling in the snow .I said I realize that but I still want it. The CA went over everything on the X3 with me and I appreicated that.My point being that if the orginal posters CA did that for him he wouldn't be feeling the way he does.
02-25-2006, 01:27 PM
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My Ride: 2006 550i Sport Package, Cold Weather Package, Premium Sound Package, Comfort Access, Xenon Headlights, Adaptive Headlight Control, Navigation System, Steptronic Transmission. Silver Gray Metallic with Gray Leather. Added Red rear reflectors. Swapped stock Style 124 wheels and Bridgestone run-flat tires for BMW Style 125 5-Double Spoke wheels, 8" x 19" front, 9.5" x 19" rear with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, 245/40YR-19 front and 275/30YR-19 rear.
Originally Posted by vern' post='245969' date='Feb 25 2006, 02:14 PM
IMHO anybody thats gets Lojack or lets the dealer put it in no matter what the cost is foolish.BMW Assist uses the same basic stolen car tracking and you get the other things that Lojack doesnot provide,(read the book).Sure you get the first year free and then its up to you if you want to keep it at additional cost. Good luck in what ever you choose I hope your car never gets stolen.
cheers
vern
cheers
vern