trojan.525i

the Burmester sound system will probably be the best in any class. like wow, they really went with the best of the best on this one. the only other car that uses Burmester is the Bugatti.

and im reaaaly liking the interior...kudos to porsche...

CWS530

Porsche may be well-managed and profitable, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are above reproach on design critique. Regardless of how popular the Cayenne or Panamera are or may become, they are aesthetically unpleasing to me. If the relative masses disagree and make these cars successful, that only serves to further my belief that the majority of people have little regard for a car's appearance anymore, and many will buy anything with a luxury logo on it. Porsche's quantitative success has no bearing whatsoever on what I find subjectively appealing from a design standpoint.

swajames

True, but you, as a sample of one, don't really invalidate or undermine the point and those that disagree with you aren't necessarily "wrong". Many BMW "purists" won't buy an E60 as they don't like the design, but I suspect you and I don't agree with them either.

CWS530

Nor does it make the majority necessarily "right." I appreciate the opinion of any BMW or other manufacturer purist. I like what I like, and I assume they do as well. In the end, though, the only opinion that really matters is the one selecting and driving the car. In that case, my sample of one is sufficient enough to be valid.

swajames

Well, one mans Cayenne is another man's X5 - it's all subjective. I don't necessarily disagree with you (on the Cayenne at least, I do however like the Panamera) . The point was that those who predicted the Cayenne would fail, due to its looks or the fact that Porsche had no business making an SUV, have been proved wrong. Porsche did indeed know best - which was the point my first post was making.

BetterMakeWay

Well...truth be told, it all depends on how you measure success. I for one assume it was a financial success. I mean clearly for years ended Porsche and VAG per integral have been making nice money selling "premium Touaregs". Then you look at the sales and for what i've found for 2008 i saw that Porsche has been selling close to 40K units worldwide (Cayennes) . Then BMW has been selling 107,297 X5s and newly born X6s. in 2008.

So again, from a financial point of view, the Cayenne model alone i think had success, due to the badge and the engines mostly. More recently it got more refined and it set apart from just a "Porsched Touareg". But we also should think of how much Cayenne cannibalized the internal Porsche brothers. Knowing truly that the Cayenne is so much different than the rest of the family, being no substitute for it. Some of the buyers might have gotten a 911 or something like that if it weren't for the Cayenne, but they saw Porsche now with commodity and an SUV morphed brand. I'm sure that most of the Cayenne buyers got the car mostly for two reasons: 1. It bears the Porsche badge and 2. It has fantastic engines (especially the Turbos). That's it! No sports car abilities, no track record braking abilities no nothing. In other words NOTHING Porsche stood for till then.

And now Porsche IMHO does another mistake. Another ugly (which is subjective) car has fled the pack. AND Porsche has lost it's charm even more.

What happened with the image of Porsche owners being rich enough to afford small but very fast cars, cars that were refined and refined during decades of research and development? What happened to the brand it once was?

It's hard for use to conceive a Ferrari SUV now, but that was the same when Cayenne came along. We only got accustomed with Porsche being no more a sports car brand, but something in between. Something more like BMW now then like Ferrari.

PS: It's the same as the heritage vs new-stuff M cars from BMW. I stand by the heritage and wish for BMW to find the strength as it found all these years to keep M car NA and high revving. It is in fact what an M was all about. I don't want M cars to get turbos even if that makes them much much faster. Or just because Audi is in the turbo war. I know it must be very hard and financial stressing to develop masterpiece of engines that REV so high and still come out reliable, and then make the car so well balanced and set-up that still can beat the competition. But that's the way BMW delighted us so many years. It's a shame if they loose focus now.

swajames

Great points - I agree, although I do think the Panamera might just turn out to be a surprise package. My dealer has seen them close up, and his take on it was that it's one of those cars where pictures don't do it justice. He said the design language makes a lot more sense when you see the thing in the flesh. I have to say, I do kind of like it!

JetBlack5OC

Damn, it looks really good in that pic.

The interior looks amazing, like nothing else out there.

I like how Porsche is pushing the envelope.

pinguhk

+1 they should do with the new car design.
Then I mite get 1.
unlike the 911 which never changes

BetterMakeWay

I'm also eager to see it up front. I think Quattroporte will be in some trouble