ipse dixit

Check out this article (free registration may be required) on what Mercedes' response was when its Navigation went haywire.

Quote from article:

The problems Callner experienced in the desert were compounded, he said, by the refusal of the Mercedes-Benz phone center to send immediate help. According to Mandel's letter, an agent at Mercedes tele-aid center told Callner after they were stranded for a few hours that nobody was on the way. When Callner asked why, the agent reportedly said, "Because, sir, nobody wants to die out there with you tonight."

"My daughter's eyes got as big as silver dollars," Callner recalled.

But before WE all start gloating, BMW is not immune ...

These problems are not unique. BMW, for example, issued a warning for its 2003 745i that the navigation computer "is inoperative at high ambient temperatures." That's not a problem in Duluth, Minn., but a big issue in Phoenix. The bulletin advises BMW dealers to fix it "on a customer complaint basis only." The fix involves nine pages of detailed steps to change out parts.

Here's the FULL article from the Los Angeles Times:

Navigation nightmare on a desert road
A real-life scare points out how the new computerized systems, while useful, can't steer you out of every jam.
By Ralph Vartabedian
Times Staff Writer

December 21, 2005

Interstate 15 was a parking lot on Aug. 14, as Marty Callner was trying to drive back to Los Angeles from Las Vegas, where he had taken his daughter for a show on the Strip.

Callner decided to tap into the navigation system of his Mercedes-Benz SL500R, a $100,000 car equipped with all the available luxuries to keep him comfortable and advanced equipment meant to keep him safe.

But what happened that day still reverberates with the Hollywood producer of concerts by the Rolling Stones and Madonna, among others.

The car's navigation system advised Callner that he could use a detour to Baker, going through the back roads of the Mojave Desert. He had used the nav system's detour feature in the past without a problem.

Callner said the Mercedes navigation system provided a circuitous route, first back-tracking north on I-15 and then swinging far south. He ended up on a remote dirt road, as a thunderstorm lighted up the sky and rain pounded the desert. As he later learned, flash flood warnings had been posted for the desert in one of the biggest electrical storms of the season.

The computer-generated woman's voice coming out of the instrument panel kept commanding Callner to "continue to follow the road," though he had his qualms when he had to start dodging large rocks as the road surface deteriorated.

A few miles from the pavement's end, Callner heard a loud pop: blow out.

What happened to Callner might be an extreme example of a navigational nightmare, but the events that day provide a good lesson in the shortcomings and limitations of computerized navigation systems that are appearing not only on high-end luxury cars but on lower priced models as well.

In lengthy correspondence between Callner's attorney, S. Jerome Mandel, and Mercedes-Benz, the auto maker denies that its navigation system had malfunctioned in the desert. A spokeswoman added that the route was "traversable and a common detour."

Callner is not suing Mercedes, but had written to the company about the problems and what he regarded as improper comments made by staff at the telephone assistance center, an emergency roadside service for Mercedes owners. The company's letter indicates it was able to confirm that Callner was indeed stranded and had sought assistance.

Mercedes-Benz's written reply to Callner amounts to a blunt disclosure of the limitations of such navigation systems.

"We must remind you (and your client)," Mercedes wrote to Mandel, "that a GPS system is not meant to replace regular maps, or driver judgment, but is simply an enhancement to travel available to vehicle operators, which they may elect to use or not. A driver uses a navigation system at his or her own discretion."

So, don't throw away those paper maps stuffed in the glove box just yet and forget the idea that computerized navigation systems are going to provide a reliable solution to the inability of many people to read and understand maps.

Navigational challenges are growing worse for motorists as cities get bigger and highway systems more complex. A General Motors study about 10 years ago found that 20% of motorists at any given moment were either lost or on a less than optimal route.

Such a finding may be hard to believe when it comes to getting around your own neighborhood, but tell somebody they have to find an unfamiliar street 50 miles away in Southern California and all bets are off. Driver's education classes should teach map reading, but most do not.

Just about every auto manufacturer has issued technical service bulletins on glitches, defects and a variety of other limitations in their nav systems, according to a review of bulletins compiled by the automobile repair information publisher Alldata Inc.

Mercedes has issued four service bulletins for the SL500R, though none of them played a role in Callner's mishap. They involve glitches in software or data bases, locking out the user or not displaying a route on the instrument panel screen. Another bulletin warns that the system's software problems may provide "navigation parallel to the actual route."

And then Mercedes warns that during "worldwide crisis situations" the system may provide erroneous navigation advice. You'll have to contact Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to learn more about that tricky issue.

These problems are not unique. BMW, for example, issued a warning for its 2003 745i that the navigation computer "is inoperative at high ambient temperatures." That's not a problem in Duluth, Minn., but a big issue in Phoenix. The bulletin advises BMW dealers to fix it "on a customer complaint basis only." The fix involves nine pages of detailed steps to change out parts.

Earlier this year, GM issued a bulletin that advised mechanics that the navigation system on its Escalade and other models "may exhibit a condition in which the vehicle reports an inaccurate location." It was another case of the software blues.

If you have a Porsche Cayenne, you might find the start screen on the navigation seems stuck. The problem of "booting up" the control modules for the system "is caused by a fault in the software."

The problems Callner experienced in the desert were compounded, he said, by the refusal of the Mercedes-Benz phone center to send immediate help. According to Mandel's letter, an agent at Mercedes tele-aid center told Callner after they were stranded for a few hours that nobody was on the way. When Callner asked why, the agent reportedly said, "Because, sir, nobody wants to die out there with you tonight."

"My daughter's eyes got as big as silver dollars," Callner recalled.

Mercedes officials denied in a reply letter that any such statement was made and that a review of the incident showed all the proper procedures were followed. A corporate spokeswoman said this week that she was not familiar with the matter, but would look into it.

Callner was assisted by a tow truck operator seven hours later, and he acknowledges now that he should have used his own judgment to ignore the advice given by his navigation system.

"I just don't want anybody else to be stuck in that situation," Callner said. "It was pretty frightening."

Ralph Vartabedian can be reached at ralph.vatabedian@

latimes.com.

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times

znod

That's very interesting ipse d. We went to SD last year from Phoenix during a record sort of heat wave and had no nav problems. But, of course, we knew where we were going except maybe the last 25 miles. I was just testing the nav, and it seemed OK. Do you know what years of BMW's might be affected? Or, is there any apparent immunity for any particular years?

ipse dixit

Don't know which years are affected, and I'm sure most dealers will feign ignorance to the whole issue.

It's probably not even enough of a problem to rise to the level of an SIB, much less a recall. Maybe we should all get together and do a letter writing campaign to NHTSA to get BMW to do a recall, or at least an SIB of some sort.

Anyhow, glad you made it ok last year. How about this year ...?

znod

Don't know which years are affected, and I'm sure most dealers will feign ignorance to the whole issue.

It's probably not even enough of a problem to rise to the level of an SIB, much less a recall. Maybe we should all get together and do a letter writing campaign to NHTSA to get BMW to do a recall, or at least an SIB of some sort.

Anyhow, glad you made it ok last year. How about this year ...?
[/quote]I'll know the whole route this year. Maybe we all could drive across the desert in mass in the summer and compare what happens on our navs. I'll go. Have you done your Phoenix trip yet?

ipse dixit

I'll know the whole route this year. Maybe we all could drive across the desert in mass in the summer and compare what happens on our navs. I'll go. Have you done your Phoenix trip yet?
[/quote]

Phoenix trip in January. But I'm not driving though -- flying instead.

Do I hear a roll call for GTG/group drive through the Mojave next August?

znod

I'll know the whole route this year. Maybe we all could drive across the desert in mass in the summer and compare what happens on our navs. I'll go. Have you done your Phoenix trip yet?
[/quote]

Phoenix trip in January. But I'm not driving though -- flying instead.

Do I hear a roll call for GTG/group drive through the Mojave next August?
[/quote]
The GTG would be fun. Maybe? I would go. Yes, I assumed you were flying. I was thinking about the experience of those who ended up rock hopping in the Merc. I wonder if they tried getting directions again from the NAV after things seemed to be going so badly. Where was personal responsibility? Still testing our NAV on the way back from SD last summer, we realized that the direction it was taking us did not seem right. That's when we learned that we had not insisted on the "shortest route." Maybe the Merc people were just being given the shortest route. Anyway, we are off to SD in a few minutes. Merry Xmas to you.

tomwid

I don't know who Mercedes employs as their answering service, but they have A LOT to learn. Those people are very rude and unfriendly. I do not doubt for 1 second that the call center employee made that statement to him. MB could care LESS. Screw MB.

cobradav

Here is the only bulletin to date that BMW fesses up to a problem. Anything else and they point to NAVTEQ

SI B 84 10 05
Phone, Navigation Systems November 2005
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.I. B84 10 05 dated September 2005.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
CCC Navigation Displays Incorrect Vehicle Position

MODEL
E90, E91 (3 Series) with SA 609 (Navigation System)

E60, E61 (5 Series) with SA 609 (Navigation System)

E63, E64 (6 Series)

SITUATION
The customer may have one or more of the following complaints:

Incorrect vehicle location is displayed.

Map displays only background color, no streets.

Route Guidance cannot be started.

The following fault may be stored in the CCC-A (Car Communication Computer ? Applications)

"A062 ? No communication with Hip module"

CAUSE
Hip module software/hardware

PROCEDURE

Perform battery reset.

Perform short test on vehicle using DIS CD 43 or later.

Page to the right and select "Function Selection".

Select "Service Functions/Body/Car Communication Computer/Reset HIP module", and continue with "Test Plan".

Select in "Own test plan" "Reset HIP module S6512_50002" and continue.

Follow the instructions for resetting the HIP module.

Clear all fault memories from the vehicle.

It is very important that the vehicle is driven for at least 15 minutes with good GPS reception in order to determine the vehicle location.

If the problem is not resolved, replace the HIP module.

After the HIP module is replaced, continue with the next step.

Using the DIS/GT1 Perform a short test on the vehicle and then page right.

Select "Control Module Functions"

Select "CCC-A Applications" from the control module list.

Select "Component Activation/Navigation ECE".

Highlight part function "Initialize software for HIP module" and press "Activate".

Wait until the display switches from "Software Loading running" to successfully complete".

It is very important that the vehicle is driven for at least 15 minutes with good GPS reception in order to determine the vehicle location.

Submit a PuMA case to the Electrical Group if the problem is not resolved.

Wait for further instructions from the Electrical Group.

Red

From the sound of it I wonder if the issue was accurate position so much as it was accuracy of the nav database? Is GPS the issue or is it Navteq?