Guest

Pennetta apparently believes "the sky is falling" for BMW, but I couldn't disagree more. BMW is clearly the market leader and innovator/trail blazer for the premium (non supercar/low volume) auto segment and all of their putative competitors are madly following trying to catch up.

The list of BMW innovations is significant, which is made clear by the competitive imitators (e.g., iDrive has been copied by MB, Infiniti, and Audi among others). More importantly, even Bangle's heavily criticized styling is being copied (check out some of the new Pontiacs). In short, nothing out there looks like a BMW now (although in a few years, there will be many clones) or performs like one.

Yes, I have read all of the automotive press about MB increasing HP output of all of its engines, but this is a response (NOT blazing a trail) to BMW --- in a couple of years, MB will be where BMW is now, but BMW is not standing still (so MB will have a hard time "catching up" to BMW).

The proof is in the sales (BMW has outsold MB for several years now), which will help BMW to not only survive, but to thrive and grow its market share. The clearest way for BMW to fail is to do what Pennetta wants -- to cater to the few so as to become a niche manufacturer ripe for acquisition by a Ford or GM to run the company into extinction (witness what is happening to Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc.).

I am not the least concerned with BMW's current approach to its premium auto segment --- in my view, it is making all of the right moves to ensure that it not only survives, but thrives in the ongoing global consolidation of automobile manufacturers. As the book "Driven" notes, the market will consolidate to no more than 10 worldwide manufacturers. So far, Daimler has acquired Chrysler to ensure its survival (although many believe this was a bad move for its branding, but Daimler is interested in long term survival, not short term market criticism). There will likely be only two other German auto manufacturers among the 10, with VW certain to be one of them.

The only way for BMW to survive is to grow its worldwide output to more than 2 million vehicle sales -- with the acquisition of the Mini brand, BMW is well on its way, but it is not out of the woods (the Range Rover fiasco hurt the company). The next BMW acquisition should be another premium brand, such as Porsche. By growing its own sales and appropriate acquisitions, BMW will be among the 10 global auto manufacturers of the 21st century. Otherwise, it will cease to exist in the same manner that GM has turned Saab into a Subaru reseller....

wiszmaster

the SL500 is one of the most awesome cars IN ITS CLASS - it handles very well. We have a '04 SL500, '04 745LI, '01 S500, '04 530i ..... lots to compare to .... but comparing the SL500 to the 645i or ci .... the Sl500 comes out on top .... you can't really compare the SL500 to the 745I or LI ... but even if you do - you can't take 1/2 the turns in the 745 that you can in the SL ....

not sure where you get the not safe feeling from ... its a heavy/solid feeling car, has GREAT accelleration as you said, has brakes supperior to most in its class, handles turns great at higher speeds due to its low point of weight .... its just an all around awesome car in its class.

subterFUSE

The SL is a 2 seat convertible.

The 745 is a sedan.

Why would you even begin to compare them? Why don't we compare a Ferrari to a dumptruck, while you are at it?



There is no BMW which competes with the SL500. The SL is $100,000..... the 645 is $20K less.... has a soft top, 4 seats and actual trunkspace. They are nothing alike.... nor are they supposed to be.


The SL500 is a beautiful looking car, but also among the most impractical vehicles being sold today. It's a weekend car.

The Pentium Guy

Maybe he means the S500?

subterFUSE

That would make more sense...

Hormazd

This thread started off really interesting so I tracked it. Now its just another MBZ vs BMW thread. It is way

So does anyone want to speculate further on the prospects of the Quandts selling out or BMWs next acquistion or new market focus and how these scenarios might effect the future of the company?

pennetta

Thankyou, I started this thread not to trash BMW but to discuss the encroachment onto BMW turf. I chose BMW for my last vehicle but traditionally never went for the V8 before. However I felt the 525/530 were to under powered compared to their competition. When my lease is up in 2.5 years I still want BMW to be the leader in the performance sedan arena.
I have raced 1000cc motorcycles and sports cars on 3 mile road courses, I currently have a 1000cc Ninja and even with my 545 SMG I am heavy into the gas pedal most of the time, SOooo I might be buying into the performance benefits more than many of you that don't agree that BMW's should more HP.
I think, and its my opinion, that the 530 should have 300 HP, the 545 should have 400 HP and the M5 should be at 550 HP. I know Christmas just passed but I can wish can't I.

Hormazd

I think they will up the HP all around. For me the 545i was a no brainer. I had no problem with the price for it, but could never justify paying $57K for a similarly equipped 530i. I would rather the Acura RL or even TL or G35. But then I am different. The average US buyer will pay just for the brand. And if BMW can sell to them, why not. They have built an image. Now the debatable point is how much they should leverage this. MB?s C- Class sells very well. The public pay several thousand dollars just for that Silver Star. The build quality of the C-class is atrocious. Their (MB?s) quality has been declining steadily over the last decade. The Honda Accord is far superior IMO to the C-Class for much less.

BMW are broadening their market focus, BUT they must continue to provide quality or in time the Roundel will be worthless.

EBMCS03

Guest

I think, and its my opinion, that the 530 should have 300 HP, the 545 should have 400 HP and the M5 should be at 550 HP. I know Christmas just passed but I can wish can't I.
[/quote]

Seems like Pennetta is only interested in HP -- perhaps, when his lease is up, he should consider leasing or buying a GM or Chrysler Hemi car (one can then brag about the great HP they have).

Back to Hormazd's point, the Quandts (like all savvy businessmen) may sell out to an acquirer at the right price. That being said, as explained earlier, the only way BMW can survive independently is to continue innovating and leading (not following) the premium market segment. As for acquisitions, BMW has to acquire market leading premium brands, such as Porsche, to preserve the value of its own market leading position and brand -- in this regard, BMW needs to avoid all of the old British manufacturers, who are holding on for dear life and survival. Other than Porsche, there is no obvious market leading premium brand left. Thus, BMW needs to continue growing its business organically by innovating and expanding its product line and growing its market share.

Contrary to Pennetta's aspirations, automobile innovation is not simply building high HP engines (Ferrari can win Formula 1 titles, but they will not be one of the 10 independent global auto manufacturers of the 21st century). MB, Acura, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc. cannot legitimately compete with the price/performance of BMW, so they market and sell the HP of their engines (and not the entire automobile package/performance) -- BMW cannot lose its focus by responding in kind and adopting a "me too" follower, not leader, approach of these sad competitors.

In the end, the 10 independent global auto manufacturers will probably be as follows: 3 American companies (GM, Ford & Daimler Chrysler), 2 German/European companies (VW & hopefully BMW), 2 Japanese companies (Toyota & either Honda or Nissan), 1 Korean company (Hyundai) and 2 Chinese companies (or 1 Chinese and 1 Indian company). BMW is well short of the survival threshold now (the BMW group only sold about 300K vehicles last year, so they need to seriously increase sales to reach the 2M annual mark or risk being eaten up by VW or an American company).