BMW only one without a Supercar???
12-15-2005, 03:53 AM
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Hey everybody!!!
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
12-15-2005, 08:18 AM
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you have to note that BMW hasn't had such a great history with supercars...
a quick look back at the M1, and the fiasco it created (both economically and image wise for bmw)
also at the Z8, which can still be found at bmw dealers around the county...
however, what from I hear BMW is indeed working on a Z10, which would compete with the likes that you have stated above. Time will tell...
a quick look back at the M1, and the fiasco it created (both economically and image wise for bmw)
also at the Z8, which can still be found at bmw dealers around the county...
however, what from I hear BMW is indeed working on a Z10, which would compete with the likes that you have stated above. Time will tell...
12-15-2005, 08:20 AM
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12-15-2005, 12:55 PM
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BMW's lack of a "supercar" I think is more financially driven (than engineering/know-how driven) ... pun intended. 
Most of the supercars are money-losers (or have not done as well as expected). The McClaren SLR, while a hot-seller when it initially debuted, is no longer being ordered by buyers. Same is true with the GT. And VW has already admitted (even before the first Veyron is delivered) that the Veyron is a money-loser.
All of this leads to me wonder how/why/who? decided to price the Corvette C6 Z06. At something like 70k MSRP, it is ridiculously underpriced, because all of the tell-tale signs says that the Z06 is a supercar. E.g. Weight/HP, pure BHP, 0-60, braking, slalom, etc. The only supercar off the top of my head that can kick the a#$ of the Z06, bar none, is probably the Veyron -- and that thing is just a tad over-the-top ... even for a supercar, no?
I wonder if the thinking behind the Z06 pricing by GM was something like this: Let's price the darn thing waaaay below cost, let the market dictate a higher premium (or the natural MSRP if we were to price it the way most car company's do with "supercars" or halo cars), this way the demand for the Z06 will endure.
P.S. I'm not sure it's right to call any one car made by Ferrari or Lambo a "supercar" -- because, technically speaking, all Ferraris and Lambos are supercars (even Gallardo a/k/a baby Lambo).
Most of the supercars are money-losers (or have not done as well as expected). The McClaren SLR, while a hot-seller when it initially debuted, is no longer being ordered by buyers. Same is true with the GT. And VW has already admitted (even before the first Veyron is delivered) that the Veyron is a money-loser.
All of this leads to me wonder how/why/who? decided to price the Corvette C6 Z06. At something like 70k MSRP, it is ridiculously underpriced, because all of the tell-tale signs says that the Z06 is a supercar. E.g. Weight/HP, pure BHP, 0-60, braking, slalom, etc. The only supercar off the top of my head that can kick the a#$ of the Z06, bar none, is probably the Veyron -- and that thing is just a tad over-the-top ... even for a supercar, no?
I wonder if the thinking behind the Z06 pricing by GM was something like this: Let's price the darn thing waaaay below cost, let the market dictate a higher premium (or the natural MSRP if we were to price it the way most car company's do with "supercars" or halo cars), this way the demand for the Z06 will endure.
P.S. I'm not sure it's right to call any one car made by Ferrari or Lambo a "supercar" -- because, technically speaking, all Ferraris and Lambos are supercars (even Gallardo a/k/a baby Lambo).
12-15-2005, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' post='211715' date='Dec 15 2005, 01:55 PM
BMW's lack of a "supercar" I think is more financially driven (than engineering/know-how driven) ... pun intended.
Most of the supercars are money-losers (or have not done as well as expected). The McClaren SLR, while a hot-seller when it initially debuted, is no longer being ordered by buyers. Same is true with the GT. And VW has already admitted (even before the first Veyron is delivered) that the Veyron is a money-loser.
All of this leads to me wonder how/why/who? decided to price the Corvette C6 Z06. At something like 70k MSRP, it is ridiculously underpriced, because all of the tell-tale signs says that the Z06 is a supercar. E.g. Weight/HP, pure BHP, 0-60, braking, slalom, etc. The only supercar off the top of my head that can kick the a#$ of the Z06, bar none, is probably the Veyron -- and that thing is just a tad over-the-top ... even for a supercar, no?
I wonder if the thinking behind the Z06 pricing by GM was something like this: Let's price the darn thing waaaay below cost, let the market dictate a higher premium (or the natural MSRP if we were to price it the way most car company's do with "supercars" or halo cars), this way the demand for the Z06 will endure.
P.S. I'm not sure it's right to call any one car made by Ferrari or Lambo a "supercar" -- because, technically speaking, all Ferraris and Lambos are supercars (even Gallardo a/k/a baby Lambo).
Most of the supercars are money-losers (or have not done as well as expected). The McClaren SLR, while a hot-seller when it initially debuted, is no longer being ordered by buyers. Same is true with the GT. And VW has already admitted (even before the first Veyron is delivered) that the Veyron is a money-loser.
All of this leads to me wonder how/why/who? decided to price the Corvette C6 Z06. At something like 70k MSRP, it is ridiculously underpriced, because all of the tell-tale signs says that the Z06 is a supercar. E.g. Weight/HP, pure BHP, 0-60, braking, slalom, etc. The only supercar off the top of my head that can kick the a#$ of the Z06, bar none, is probably the Veyron -- and that thing is just a tad over-the-top ... even for a supercar, no?
I wonder if the thinking behind the Z06 pricing by GM was something like this: Let's price the darn thing waaaay below cost, let the market dictate a higher premium (or the natural MSRP if we were to price it the way most car company's do with "supercars" or halo cars), this way the demand for the Z06 will endure.
P.S. I'm not sure it's right to call any one car made by Ferrari or Lambo a "supercar" -- because, technically speaking, all Ferraris and Lambos are supercars (even Gallardo a/k/a baby Lambo).
12-17-2005, 06:21 AM
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I think that almost all the supercars are financially bad and have no profit... It's more a matter of prestige and showing what you can do. VW's Bugatti is (although he's very expensive) financially very very bad, but it's a product of prestige, know how...
12-17-2005, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Postel' post='211527' date='Dec 15 2005, 07:53 AM
Hey everybody!!!
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
0 to 60 time: How about less than 4 secs.?
1/4 mile time: How about less than 12 secs?
1/4 mile speed: How about greater than 120 MPH?
Top speed: How about greater than 175 MPH?
Time for a lap on the ring: 8.5 minutes?
How do you all see the criteria? What other criteria do you suggest? What values do you think should be required for satisfaction of your suggested criteria. And, do you think my suggested values should be changed?
12-17-2005, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thatbimmerguy' post='212348' date='Dec 17 2005, 12:23 PM
I thought the Diablo was Lamborghini's top of the range car?
12-18-2005, 02:23 PM
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Hey everybody!!!
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
Mercedes- Benz : SLR McLaren Mercedes-Benz
Porsche : Carrera GT
VW: Bugatti Veyron
Audi: R9 (the new one, I thought it called R9)
Ferrari : Enzo
Lamborghini : Murcielago
You see, they all have a +320km/h supercar!!! OK, BMW has an M6 or an M3 GTR Streetversion but when are they going to make an answer to the cars listed above???
The McLaren F1 with BMW Engine was a masterpiece, but that's already 10 years ago... The time has come that a new one will come...
0 to 60 time: How about less than 4 secs.?
1/4 mile time: How about less than 12 secs?
1/4 mile speed: How about greater than 120 MPH?
Top speed: How about greater than 175 MPH?
Time for a lap on the ring: Not sure
How do you all see the criteria? What other criteria do you suggest? What values do you think should be required for satisfaction of your suggested criteria. And, do you think my suggested values should be changed?
[/quote]
Easy - a supercar is one that elicits the following bubble thoughts upon first sight "Gee, if I could have any car tomorrow, that's the car I am getting."
Numbers just don't tell the story. Based on the listed criteria above, a Lotus Elise would probably qualify as a supercar -- and, in my book, the Elise for all of its driving pleasure is clearly not a supercar.
*PS - I also think a top speed of 175 mph is a bit too high. Not many cars can reach that speed without saying "adios" to Mother Earth, much less sustaining it for more than a few seconds.