Audi RS5
09-25-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='678121' date='Sep 25 2008, 09:18 PM
You guys are making this too technical. Comparing cars in the same "class" is what magazines do but in life, when you run against a car on the road, no one cares if you should or shouldn't compete cause you're in or out of the "class". You either beat down or get beaten whether it's from a dig, from a roll, straight away or through curves; it doesn't matter.
09-25-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jmsod' post='678122' date='Sep 25 2008, 09:21 PM
Ummm no way! Beat to 60 in 0.1 seconds maybe? A touch faster in the quarler mile... maybe, but "whoop the RS5's ass". Come on man. I love BMW and I have also has an Audi. Audi is right on the heels of BMW as far as performance goes and many think that Audi has evened the race. You need to catch up.
I said: the new M3 CSL has to go hardcore to remain NA and still to whoop RS5's ass.
And i am sure it will KILL it BADLY. Since the E46 M3 CSL still beats badly the new RS4, except on short runs from stand still (due to quattro advantage) and the new RS4 is a V8 4.2 liters 420bhp while CSL "only" 360 bhp 3.2 liters straight 6.
True the new RS5 is biturbo which is like cheating in a NA war (but that's another story) but thew new M3 CSL will retake the crown. It happened all the time. Audi is one step back of BMW. When BMW had the E39 M5, Audi later on got out the RS6 (biturbo) to compete and still the M5 reigned supreme in most tests. When BMW got the E60 M5, Audi RS6 got outdated and came out with this current version of the RS6 which is a MONSTER. The same goes for the M3 vs RS4. Don't be fooled by the extra power. Audi needs alot more power to compensate for the quattro losses, and for the extra weight of the quattro. For sure quattro will be felt at short stints but at higher speeds things turn the other way around.
As for technology...welll...i've been thinking that Audi has been researching for the DCT for countless years now but failed to implement it successfully on high performance cars. That's why on RS4 there is only manual :thumbsdown: and on the Porsche Carrera Turbo you still get the "old" tiptronic. BMW got it right from the start with this new M3. So again Audi one step back.
09-25-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='677794' date='Sep 25 2008, 04:06 AM
Guys seriously, even though i respect each and everyone's opinion, i must say this RS5 is trying too much. The design of it is trying too much. Not to mention the lower back ala F1 car/Ferrari. The front is still not in harmony as with all the A4 models, the panels where the headlights are still don't come in harmony with the front grill. It's like somebody took an axe and cut the sides and then another sharp cut on the front. Also the front air intakes, below the headlights, look like overkill. I mean yeah they are huge and aggressive but looking at the overall of the car it seems like overkill.
And please stop comparing the RS5 with the M3. The journalists do it to since they want to sell mags but it's not a fair comparison. Those two cars are in different leagues. While the M3 is still a super sport cruiser, like the S5, the RS5 is the hardcore of the Audi creme. So for the moment it's obvious the RS5 will beat the M3 at most performance chapters (except handling maybe) but the real competitor for it is yet to come out of BMW. It's called the E92 M3 CSL which will have a direct competitor, the RS5. Rumored has it that the new CSL will boost a healthy 480 NA HP, with much lower weight. Then we can talk about who's who and what's what.
And please stop comparing the RS5 with the M3. The journalists do it to since they want to sell mags but it's not a fair comparison. Those two cars are in different leagues. While the M3 is still a super sport cruiser, like the S5, the RS5 is the hardcore of the Audi creme. So for the moment it's obvious the RS5 will beat the M3 at most performance chapters (except handling maybe) but the real competitor for it is yet to come out of BMW. It's called the E92 M3 CSL which will have a direct competitor, the RS5. Rumored has it that the new CSL will boost a healthy 480 NA HP, with much lower weight. Then we can talk about who's who and what's what.
09-25-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' post='678105' date='Sep 25 2008, 02:04 PM
Why isn't the RS5 ultra hardcore? Did you see the seats on the RS4? I mean how would you explain those seats to your average Joe? The RS5 is the sportiest audi A5. Period. The M3 CSL is the sportiest 3 series coupe. Period.
Audi S5 cannot be compared to the 335i because they use different engines (6 cyl vs 8 cyl) and one is turbo and the other is not. M3 on the other hand is NA like the S5 and both use closely displacement V8s. Since the new RS5 is V8 but biturbo the new M3 CSL has to go hardcore to remain NA and still to whoop RS5's ass.
Audi S5 cannot be compared to the 335i because they use different engines (6 cyl vs 8 cyl) and one is turbo and the other is not. M3 on the other hand is NA like the S5 and both use closely displacement V8s. Since the new RS5 is V8 but biturbo the new M3 CSL has to go hardcore to remain NA and still to whoop RS5's ass.
The S5 and the 335 coupe are direct competitors as far as performance goes and they have been pitted against each other in all the mags.... S5 V8 vs stock 335 TT and the BMW edged it out.
An S5 CAN NOT compete with an M3 regardless of the S5 having a V8 like the M3.
The RS5 is hardcore but the CLS is UTLTRA harcore because it's more race ready (shaving pounds off)
"Our sources say that the hard-core CSL ? uprated to 450 hp and slimmed down by 220 pounds compared to the standard M3?.. the CSL's 4.0-liter V8 had been breathing deep through the big grille intake, a carbon-fiber airbox and new valves to deliver as much as 470 hp."
09-25-2008, 04:07 PM
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And please stop comparing the RS5 with the M3. The journalists do it to since they want to sell mags but it's not a fair comparison. Those two cars are in different leagues. While the M3 is still a super sport cruiser, like the S5, the RS5 is the hardcore of the Audi creme. So for the moment it's obvious the RS5 will beat the M3 at most performance chapters (except handling maybe) but the real competitor for it is yet to come out of BMW. It's called the E92 M3 CSL which will have a direct competitor, the RS5. Rumored has it that the new CSL will boost a healthy 480 NA HP, with much lower weight. Then we can talk about who's who and what's what.
Sorry to burst your bubble. But it is official, the E9x M3 CSL has been CANCELLED.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/08/26/bmw-c...ild-e92-m3-csl/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/27/report-...3-csl/#comments
09-26-2008, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC' post='678417' date='Sep 26 2008, 03:07 AM
A lot better than recent BMW models. BMW styling is going in the sh*tter, example 135i and new 7-series.
I smell a BMW bias. Have fun in your bubble.
Like everyone already said above. The RS5 doesn't compete with the M3 CSL. The S5 competes with the 335i and the RS5 will compete with the M3 coupe.
Sorry to burst your bubble. But it is official, the E9x M3 CSL has been CANCELLED.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/08/26/bmw-c...ild-e92-m3-csl/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/27/report-...3-csl/#comments
I smell a BMW bias. Have fun in your bubble.
Like everyone already said above. The RS5 doesn't compete with the M3 CSL. The S5 competes with the 335i and the RS5 will compete with the M3 coupe.
Sorry to burst your bubble. But it is official, the E9x M3 CSL has been CANCELLED.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/08/26/bmw-c...ild-e92-m3-csl/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/27/report-...3-csl/#comments
This is sad news indeed. I mean this really burst my bubble. I was going to move on the CSL and hold the temptations on the current m3 but now...i dunno what to say. Speechless and very disappointing by BMW. Now BMW will not have a real competitor for the RS5, cuz the RS5 will probably kill the M3, except maybe on twisties. And i stress maybe.
Too bad since i feel Audi is in another league by adding turbos to the V8. I liked so much the last CSL that made it on my 2nd place on my wish list. 1st was the Carrera GT but i could never afford that car. The sound of the CSL will always remain in my heart, and it's just a shame BMW thought to discontinue the legacy. BAD MOVE BMW ! BAD MOVE!
M division shifting attention to M X5 and M X6...BAAAH!
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Regarding the competition i still think RS5 is not a real competitor for the M3. Till the RS5 was rumored to go out, everybody compared the RS4 to the M3. Even Top Gear, 5th Gear and all other bunch of mags and automotive TV Shows. Why? Well not because one is four door and the other is a 2 door coupe, but because the engines are quite the same. I mean yeah it's a 0.2 liters difference in them, but both rev relatively high, both have 420 bhp, and both are V8s. And most of those mags declared the winner by far the M3. Then Audi saw the outcome and thought it wouldn't makes sense to put the RS4 NA engine in the RS5 because the result would be more or less the same. To make sure they win the M3 crown, they decided to add 2 turbochargers to the already pumped up V8. Since they saw that this was the only way to insure the victory it would be wise to think BMW had to resort to a different approach if they had or wanted to keep the engine NA, and that should have been the diet of the M3 and pump some natural steroids in that engine.
The same can be said about the price. While the S5 is very close in terms of price to the M3 (only 2-3K Euro) the RS5 is going to go sky high in terms of price and thus another point that favors the no-competition dbate.
Consider the fact that the RS5 engine output is "only" 450 bhp. That's 30 more bhp than the M3 engine but turbocharged (bi). I mean doesn't it strike to anyone that Audi "struggled to give such little gain" by adding turbos to keep the appearance of competition??? (exacty the same treatment applied to the RS6 vs M5)Heck the Nissan GT-R is a 3.8 liter (correct me if i'm wrong) V6 TT and develops 480bhp and then some. And it's 0.4 liters less and 2 cylinders less of the Audi engine but still develops more than the Audi RS5. In this respect the GT-R is more of a rival to the RS5 than the RS5 is to the NA M3. Do we see the GT-R as rival for the M3?! Most of us don't and in truth so. And yet there is no problem in seeing the RS5 as the rival for the M3....and with this i rest my case.
09-26-2008, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bigscore' post='676608' date='Sep 24 2008, 03:02 AM
I just saw the new issue of Car magazine. RS5 vs M3 on the cover with actual pics of the RS.....look out M3!!...450hp V8 Twin Turbo....STOCK...I'm a BMW Fan but i must admit it looks hot !
(ow, that hurt saying that -- that'll be the BMW bias inside me kicking my a$$!
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