Iceman, Please Forward This Post to BMW
10-30-2004, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wassy' date='Oct 30 2004, 12:28 PM
Paul- I disagree with your assessment that BMW is making a big push with regards to Bluetooth and its technology.. I think they are doing it to keep competative vs. Lexus, Acura, et al.? They are behind the times, quite honestly, in regards to technology.. just look at their NAV system vs Lexus, or even Honda/Acura for that matter.? it take 3 minutes or more of button turning to locate a destination.? Very very antiquated.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while.?? I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy.? Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does.? I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it!? I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while.?? I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy.? Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does.? I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it!? I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.
[snapback]51133[/snapback]
I don't like the size of the V710. The only BT advantage that I am aware of is that I do not have to dock the phone. The cost is not an issue. I have to pay $400 for the V710 and probably some labor for the retrofit. And then wait for updates from Verizon and BMW.
The CPT solution is more expensive, its an older phone but is smaller and works.
I feel that headache coming again. Wassy or Pharding? Bush or Kerry? The Devil or the deep blue sea? All has to decided by Monday afternoon.
10-30-2004, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hormazd' date='Oct 30 2004, 08:43 PM
[quote name='wassy' date='Oct 30 2004, 12:28 PM']Paul- I disagree with your assessment that BMW is making a big push with regards to Bluetooth and its technology.. I think they are doing it to keep competative vs. Lexus, Acura, et al.? They are behind the times, quite honestly, in regards to technology.. just look at their NAV system vs Lexus, or even Honda/Acura for that matter.? it take 3 minutes or more of button turning to locate a destination.? Very very antiquated.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while.?? I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy.? Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does.? I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it!? I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while.?? I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy.? Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does.? I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it!? I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.
[snapback]51133[/snapback]
I don't like the size of the V710. The only BT advantage that I am aware of is that I do not have to dock the phone. The cost is not an issue. I have to pay $400 for the V710 and probably some labor for the retrofit. And then wait for updates from BMW and BMW.
The CPT solution is more expensive, its an older phone but is smaller and works.
I feel that headache coming again.
[snapback]51248[/snapback]
[/quote]Still deciding myself. Consider this:
1. Bluetooth is the future. That's why we have "wireless" to begin with.
2. BMW wants "out" of the phone business, so don't expect upgrades. This is why BT is included in ALL future models. You'll need to *downgrade* your phone to be compatable with your car. The Moto V60 was released in 2001.
3. The reception of the newer phones continues to improve. As much as I loved my StarTac, it's no match for most new phones.
4. The sharkfin antenna does nothing to improve reception if you have a good carrier.
5. The CPT9000, at $500 is a rip-off. What you are getting is a $35 Motorola V60i phone, with a BMW price tag. Like the $125 dealer oil change scenario.
6. The V60i was discontinued by 5 carriers. See here. What about support? http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=96
7. A plug-in charger doesn't bother me. We have 2 or 3 power jacks, right?
8. The idea of finishing a conversation after you finish a drive, without sitting in the car is advantageous, and visa-versa.
9. The Motorola HF800 BT speaker will work as well. You'll have the flexibility of using it now or later if you want to, not with the CPT.
10. The CPT9000 won't work with any other system than BMW.
11. Upgrade paths for either hardware or software should be easier with a universal connection between the car and cell phone.
12. This is just the beginning. You can choose from over a dozen phones now; many more later.
On the technology, my wife has a Bluetooth Lexus w/ NAV. Although the touch screen has it's advantages, it's no match to the I-drive for destination entry, zooming, display and ease of option entry.
Programatically, her phone should work with my car too, so letting her borrow my car won't mean borrowing my phone. I'll let you know.
10-30-2004, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wnrussell' date='Oct 30 2004, 08:59 PM
Still deciding myself.? Consider this:
1.? Bluetooth is the future.? That's why we have "wireless" to begin with.
2.? BMW wants "out" of the phone business, so don't expect upgrades.? This is why BT is included in ALL future models.? You'll need to *downgrade* your phone to be compatable with your car.? The Moto V60 was released in 2001.
3.? The reception of the newer phones continues to improve.? As much as I loved my StarTac, it's no match for most new phones.
4.? The sharkfin antenna does nothing to improve reception if you have a good carrier.
5.? The CPT9000, at $500 is a rip-off.? What you are getting is a $35 Motorola V60i phone, with a BMW price tag.? Like the $125 dealer oil change scenario.
6.? The V60i was discontinued by 5 carriers.? See here. What about support? http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=96
7.? A plug-in charger doesn't bother me.? We have 2 or 3 power jacks, right?
8.? The idea of finishing a conversation after you finish a drive, without sitting in the car is advantageous, and visa-versa.
9.? The Motorola HF800 BT speaker will work as well.? You'll have the flexibility of using it now or later if you want to, not with the CPT.
10.? The CPT9000 won't work with any other system than BMW.
11.? Upgrade paths for either hardware or software should be easier with a universal connection between the car and cell phone.
12.? This is just the beginning. You can choose from over a dozen phones now; many more later.
On the technology, my wife has a Bluetooth Lexus w/ NAV.? Although the touch screen has it's advantages, it's no match to the I-drive for destination entry, zooming, display and ease of option entry.
Theoretically, her phone should work with my car too.? I'll let you know.
1.? Bluetooth is the future.? That's why we have "wireless" to begin with.
2.? BMW wants "out" of the phone business, so don't expect upgrades.? This is why BT is included in ALL future models.? You'll need to *downgrade* your phone to be compatable with your car.? The Moto V60 was released in 2001.
3.? The reception of the newer phones continues to improve.? As much as I loved my StarTac, it's no match for most new phones.
4.? The sharkfin antenna does nothing to improve reception if you have a good carrier.
5.? The CPT9000, at $500 is a rip-off.? What you are getting is a $35 Motorola V60i phone, with a BMW price tag.? Like the $125 dealer oil change scenario.
6.? The V60i was discontinued by 5 carriers.? See here. What about support? http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=96
7.? A plug-in charger doesn't bother me.? We have 2 or 3 power jacks, right?
8.? The idea of finishing a conversation after you finish a drive, without sitting in the car is advantageous, and visa-versa.
9.? The Motorola HF800 BT speaker will work as well.? You'll have the flexibility of using it now or later if you want to, not with the CPT.
10.? The CPT9000 won't work with any other system than BMW.
11.? Upgrade paths for either hardware or software should be easier with a universal connection between the car and cell phone.
12.? This is just the beginning. You can choose from over a dozen phones now; many more later.
On the technology, my wife has a Bluetooth Lexus w/ NAV.? Although the touch screen has it's advantages, it's no match to the I-drive for destination entry, zooming, display and ease of option entry.
Theoretically, her phone should work with my car too.? I'll let you know.
[snapback]51262[/snapback]
10-31-2004, 02:49 PM
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I forwarded it and let you know if I get a reply. But hopefully you'll get one, since I attached your email addr4ess as well as the link to the post!
10-31-2004, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' date='Oct 31 2004, 05:49 PM
I forwarded it and let you know if I get a reply. But hopefully you'll get one, since I attached your email addr4ess as well as the link to the post!
[snapback]51498[/snapback]
Thank you very much!
Paul Harding
11-01-2004, 09:26 PM
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Paul,
My car is being retrofitted. Have them check the part number of your microphone. They have a less sensitive one that can be installed. I will keep you all posted tomorrow as to the progress with my retrofit.
Hormazd
My car is being retrofitted. Have them check the part number of your microphone. They have a less sensitive one that can be installed. I will keep you all posted tomorrow as to the progress with my retrofit.
Hormazd
11-02-2004, 12:10 AM
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Hormazd,
Which dealer did you use? Who is your Service Advisor? I would like to find out my car with the VIN can be retrofitted with the software only solution.
James
Which dealer did you use? Who is your Service Advisor? I would like to find out my car with the VIN can be retrofitted with the software only solution.
James
Originally Posted by Hormazd' date='Nov 2 2004, 12:26 AM
Paul,
My car is being retrofitted.? Have them check the part number of your microphone.? They have a less sensitive one that can be installed.? I will keep you all posted tomorrow as to the progress with my retrofit.
Hormazd
My car is being retrofitted.? Have them check the part number of your microphone.? They have a less sensitive one that can be installed.? I will keep you all posted tomorrow as to the progress with my retrofit.
Hormazd
[snapback]52002[/snapback]
11-02-2004, 03:41 AM
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After thinking through the comments from Pharding on the BT challenges, I came to a realization.
Pharding mentioned that when he turned down the speaker volume, the audio became much higher quality for those listening from the other end. This is a classic case of 'audio feedback' loop not being managed well.
There is a part of the audio system when using the BT phone connection that is automatically balancing the levels between the mic and the speakers to prevent that loud 'squeal' when a speaker's volume is too loud and allows the speaker's sound to loop back into the mic and create that annoying squeal. What may be at play here is the automatic sensor in the software that senses the possibility of the squeal starting, continues to reduce the mic's sensitivity. It uses the speaker volume manual adjustment by the driver as the 'set-point' and then lowers the mic sensitivity to avoid squeal. It also has to adjust these things with ambient road and wind noise in the background, not easy.
If these assumptions are correct, it could be that further tweaking of the software could improve it. Let's see what Iceman finds out from his contact.
BTW, (not that this would help the audio quality at all) for those who are frustrated with the BT phones being phased out, new phones with BT come out all the time, why not look into the new motorola RAZR which has BT (is all world regions GSM) and is just coming onto the market? Now we need someone with a BT car to start trying out all these new phones
Pharding mentioned that when he turned down the speaker volume, the audio became much higher quality for those listening from the other end. This is a classic case of 'audio feedback' loop not being managed well.
There is a part of the audio system when using the BT phone connection that is automatically balancing the levels between the mic and the speakers to prevent that loud 'squeal' when a speaker's volume is too loud and allows the speaker's sound to loop back into the mic and create that annoying squeal. What may be at play here is the automatic sensor in the software that senses the possibility of the squeal starting, continues to reduce the mic's sensitivity. It uses the speaker volume manual adjustment by the driver as the 'set-point' and then lowers the mic sensitivity to avoid squeal. It also has to adjust these things with ambient road and wind noise in the background, not easy.
If these assumptions are correct, it could be that further tweaking of the software could improve it. Let's see what Iceman finds out from his contact.
BTW, (not that this would help the audio quality at all) for those who are frustrated with the BT phones being phased out, new phones with BT come out all the time, why not look into the new motorola RAZR which has BT (is all world regions GSM) and is just coming onto the market? Now we need someone with a BT car to start trying out all these new phones
11-02-2004, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gdavis' date='Nov 2 2004, 06:41 AM
After thinking through the comments from Pharding on the BT challenges, I came to a realization.
Pharding mentioned that when he turned down the speaker volume, the audio became much higher quality for those listening from the other end.? This is a classic case of 'audio feedback' loop not being managed well.
There is a part of the audio system when using the BT phone connection that is automatically balancing the levels between the mic and the speakers to prevent that loud 'squeal' when a speaker's volume is too loud and allows the speaker's sound to loop back into the mic and create that annoying squeal. What may be at play here is the automatic sensor in the software that senses the possibility of the squeal starting, continues to reduce the mic's sensitivity.? It uses the speaker volume manual adjustment by the driver as the 'set-point' and then lowers the mic sensitivity to avoid squeal. It also has to adjust these things with ambient road and wind noise in the background, not easy.
If these assumptions are correct, it could be that further tweaking of the software could improve it.? Let's see what Iceman finds out from his contact.
BTW, (not that this would help the audio quality at all) for those who are frustrated with the BT phones being phased out, new phones with BT come out all the time, why not look into the new motorola RAZR which has BT (is all world regions GSM) and is just coming onto the market?? Now we need someone with a BT car to start trying out all these new phones?
Pharding mentioned that when he turned down the speaker volume, the audio became much higher quality for those listening from the other end.? This is a classic case of 'audio feedback' loop not being managed well.
There is a part of the audio system when using the BT phone connection that is automatically balancing the levels between the mic and the speakers to prevent that loud 'squeal' when a speaker's volume is too loud and allows the speaker's sound to loop back into the mic and create that annoying squeal. What may be at play here is the automatic sensor in the software that senses the possibility of the squeal starting, continues to reduce the mic's sensitivity.? It uses the speaker volume manual adjustment by the driver as the 'set-point' and then lowers the mic sensitivity to avoid squeal. It also has to adjust these things with ambient road and wind noise in the background, not easy.
If these assumptions are correct, it could be that further tweaking of the software could improve it.? Let's see what Iceman finds out from his contact.
BTW, (not that this would help the audio quality at all) for those who are frustrated with the BT phones being phased out, new phones with BT come out all the time, why not look into the new motorola RAZR which has BT (is all world regions GSM) and is just coming onto the market?? Now we need someone with a BT car to start trying out all these new phones?
[snapback]52055[/snapback]
The RAZR uses the same BT as the V600 which BMW "approves" si it should work, according to my source at Motorola who was able to provide the RAZR.
I will follow up after I have tested on an '05.