Iceman, Please Forward This Post to BMW
10-29-2004, 05:40 PM
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pharding, wassy and others, I really greatly appreciate this investigation and dialog. I have been lurking here anxiously awaiting the details on how to get the BT stuff done and working well. This is so great to hear the diagnostics you guys are doing on this.
It sure sounds like it is close to being great, maybe with soon to be tweeked software adjustments.
I'll just keep quiet and read on as you guys work on this. But don't stop investigating how to get there if some of us are not chiming in.
thanks again!
It sure sounds like it is close to being great, maybe with soon to be tweeked software adjustments.
I'll just keep quiet and read on as you guys work on this. But don't stop investigating how to get there if some of us are not chiming in.
thanks again!
10-29-2004, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Francois' date='Oct 29 2004, 10:00 AM
Hi, I have the same problem on a bluetooth factory installed, What BMW should do is make it possible thru the idrive to set the volume of the microphone and speakers (maybe relative to the radio/cd volume). I know this is not easy as it can cause problems when the signal goes round.
[snapback]50713[/snapback]
Hi Francois
Are you still using the Siemens S65 with your E60 bluetooth? Did you manage to solve the dropping. I'm planning to go for the bluetooth retrofit and thnking to of getting this phone also.
thanks,
eggz
10-29-2004, 11:54 PM
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Hi eggz,
yes I am. In the beginning I had some troubles that the phone did not stay connected. I then in the Idrive menu deleted it and then paired it again and now it seems oke. Since then in allmost 2 months the connection was lost 3 times. After restarting the car it was on again. What still is a problem however is that when someone calls me I take the call, then it mutes for 3 seconds and then there is sound again. If I make the call there is no problem. The sound quality and connection of the nokia 6310i is a bit better, but offcourse the S65 itself is the by far nicer phone if you look at the functionality. Battery-life on the other hand could be better, but I think this had to do with the bluetooth search allways on.
yes I am. In the beginning I had some troubles that the phone did not stay connected. I then in the Idrive menu deleted it and then paired it again and now it seems oke. Since then in allmost 2 months the connection was lost 3 times. After restarting the car it was on again. What still is a problem however is that when someone calls me I take the call, then it mutes for 3 seconds and then there is sound again. If I make the call there is no problem. The sound quality and connection of the nokia 6310i is a bit better, but offcourse the S65 itself is the by far nicer phone if you look at the functionality. Battery-life on the other hand could be better, but I think this had to do with the bluetooth search allways on.
10-30-2004, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pharding' date='Oct 29 2004, 10:47 AM
Possible Solution to Improving Bletooth Audio Quality for BMW Consideration
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
[snapback]50707[/snapback]
I am wondering, do you think this volume misbalance is typical of ALL BMW BT installations, or specific to the E60?
10-30-2004, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wnrussell' date='Oct 30 2004, 11:00 AM
[quote name='pharding' date='Oct 29 2004, 10:47 AM']Possible Solution to Improving Bletooth Audio Quality for BMW Consideration
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
[snapback]50707[/snapback]
I am wondering, do you think this volume misbalance is typical of ALL BMW BT installations, or specific to the E60?
[snapback]51109[/snapback]
[/quote]I am not familiar with other BMW models. But based upon what I have read on various BMW message boards about Bluetooth issues, this Bluetooth volume misbalance impacts e60 owners in Europe and the US, and X5 Owners in the US. I did not search out information on Bluetooth issues in depth on other models other the e60 and X5. From what little I read I would guess that this might be an issue on the 7 series, but this is conjecture.
As an aside Bluetooth is now included for no cost on all new e60s. Obviously BMW is making a big committment to this technology. So this bodes well for getting this volume misbalance issue fixed in a timely manner. Assuming that it is a software issue, also bodes well for a fix.
On Friday I contacted BMW Customer Service and asked that Customer Service Rep read the Iceman Bluetooth post on e60.net that I made. He read the post while I was on the phone and forwarded it to BMW Engineering.
Next week I intend to write letters. If enough other e60 Owners lobby for a fix, BMW is typically responsive.
The Bluetooth feature set is a joy to use. It is much safer than fumbing with a cell phone attempting to dial a number and driving at the same time. Right now when making a call using Bluetooth in my 545, I turn the volume down as low as I can tolerate to get better clarity for the other party. This definitely helps. I think that the $599 price that I was charged was too high since the bulk of the time probably was attributable to the upgrade to 13.3. All things considered I highly recommend the Bluetooth upgrade for the e60.
10-30-2004, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by pharding' date='Oct 29 2004, 10:47 AM
Possible Solution to Improving Bletooth Audio Quality for BMW Consideration
I think that the $599 price that I was charged was too high since the bulk of the time probably was attributable to the upgrade to 13.3. All things considered I highly recommend the Bluetooth upgrade for the e60.
I think that the $599 price that I was charged was too high since the bulk of the time probably was attributable to the upgrade to 13.3. All things considered I highly recommend the Bluetooth upgrade for the e60.
[snapback]51115[/snapback]
If I get my car upgraded to 13.3, will that include Bluetooth capability in my '04 530? Is there any other programming involved? I have read what you have posted several times, and it still isn't clear exactly WHAT they programmed, aside from giving your car v 13.3 software. I have a 10/03 build date, but I think my car needs a new TCU, because of static in my stereo system, and hopefully, they'll give me a newer, bluetooth capable one, along with programming.
Summary - If I get a new TCU and get my software upgraded to 13.3 (I think there are some buggy issues going on with 13.2 that I have), will I have bluetooth capability?
Thanks!
10-30-2004, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by pharding' date='Oct 30 2004, 12:54 PM
[quote name='wnrussell' date='Oct 30 2004, 11:00 AM'][quote name='pharding' date='Oct 29 2004, 10:47 AM']Possible Solution to Improving Bluetooth Audio Quality for BMW Consideration
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
I was one of the first people in the US, if not the first, to have the Bluetooth Retrofit in an 04 e60.? The feature set is excellent, but the audio quality for the listener is problematic.? The problem clearly has to do with the appropriate volume settings for speaking on the phone, listening on the phone, and listening to music. These settings are not set correctly by BMW. My employees have complained the poor audio quality and about how loud I am when I talk to them using BMW Bluetooth. This morning I pulled off the street at a location with a strong signal. I wanted to see what the appropriate volume would be for the other party. The ideal volume setting, controlled by the cars volume control, for the person at the other end of the phone is very low. If I set the volume at the ideal setting for the other party, I can barely hear them when the car is parked with no ambient noise. At this setting they claim that the audio quality is 9 on a ten point scale, with ten being a quality office telephone with an excellent connection. This equal to the audio quality of my hard wired BMW Motorola Phone in my 01 530. Unfortunately at this level I can just barely hear them when the car is parked. I would never use this volume setting when the car is parked . It is way too low. The other consideration is that the stereo system at this volume setting, even when parked is way too low. I never listen to the stereo at this low level. Generally when I make and receive calls I have the stereo set at the appropriate level for listening enjoyment. I do not change the volume for phone calls typically. This volume level with ambient noise when I drive is way too high for telephone calls for the other party. It would seem to me to me that the interplay between these volume requirements needs adjusted. Undoubtedly this could be fixed with software by BMW.
If someone needs to contact me, please do not hesitate use the following:
Paul Harding
pharding@hardingassoc.com
Thanks and good luck to BMW in getting this problem solved that also impacts the X5.? There is very strong interest in having working Bluetooth with excellent audio quality on the part of e60 and X5 owners.
[snapback]50707[/snapback]
I am wondering, do you think this volume misbalance is typical of ALL BMW BT installations, or specific to the E60?
[snapback]51109[/snapback]
[/quote]I am not familiar with other BMW models. But based upon what I have read on various BMW message boards about Bluetooth issues, this Bluetooth volume misbalance impacts e60 owners in Europe and the US, and X5 Owners in the US. I did not search out information on Bluetooth issues in depth on other models other the e60 and X5. From what little I read I would guess that this might be an issue on the 7 series, but this is conjecture.
As an aside Bluetooth is now included for no cost on all new e60s. Obviously BMW is making a big committment to this technology. So this bodes well for getting this volume misbalance issue fixed in a timely manner. Assuming that it is a software issue, also bodes well for a fix.
On Friday I contacted BMW Customer Service and asked that Customer Service Rep read the Iceman Bluetooth post on e60.net that I made. He read the post while I was on the phone and forwarded it to BMW Engineering.
Next week I intend to write letters. If enough other e60 Owners lobby for a fix, BMW is typically responsive.
The Bluetooth feature set is a joy to use. It is much safer than fumbing with a cell phone attempting to dial a number and driving at the same time. Right now when making a call using Bluetooth in my 545, I turn the volume down as low as I can tolerate to get better clarity for the other party. This definitely helps. I think that the $599 price that I was charged was too high since the bulk of the time probably was attributable to the upgrade to 13.3. All things considered I highly recommend the Bluetooth upgrade for the e60.
[snapback]51115[/snapback]
[/quote]Thanks. I'm doing the same for with Verizon. the next problem for me is Verizon who just this August released their only BT phone, the V710, but they disabled the file transfer features which allow the address books in the car and handset to synch up.
My postings and others in the phone forums instigated a recall of Verizon's BT phones from the shelves of all their stores last week. People don't want to drive down the highway and tap little buttons when most of those controls and displays can be integrated with the automobile using today's technology.
Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at the same time, and now I am compromising safety, while they are playing games, including false advertising.
I am stuck with Verizon because of a 2 year contract and they have the best data transmission ability in the wireless world.
Bill
10-30-2004, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb' date='Oct 30 2004, 12:08 PM
Pharding -
If I get my car upgraded to 13.3, will that include Bluetooth capability in my '04 530?? Is there any other programming involved?? I have read what you have posted several times, and it still isn't clear exactly WHAT they programmed, aside from giving your car v 13.3 software.? I have a 10/03 build date, but I think my car needs a new TCU, because of static in my stereo system, and hopefully, they'll give me a newer, bluetooth capable one, along with programming.?
Summary - If I get a new TCU and get my software upgraded to 13.3 (I think there are some buggy issues going on with 13.2 that I have), will I have bluetooth capability?
Thanks!
If I get my car upgraded to 13.3, will that include Bluetooth capability in my '04 530?? Is there any other programming involved?? I have read what you have posted several times, and it still isn't clear exactly WHAT they programmed, aside from giving your car v 13.3 software.? I have a 10/03 build date, but I think my car needs a new TCU, because of static in my stereo system, and hopefully, they'll give me a newer, bluetooth capable one, along with programming.?
Summary - If I get a new TCU and get my software upgraded to 13.3 (I think there are some buggy issues going on with 13.2 that I have), will I have bluetooth capability?
Thanks!
[snapback]51116[/snapback]
10-30-2004, 10:54 AM
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My Ride: 2004 545i 6 spd Sports Package | NAV | PDC | Logic 7 | BT retrofit | SW V13.3
Originally Posted by wnrussell' date='Oct 30 2004, 11:45 AM
Thanks.? I'm doing the same for with Verizon.? the next problem for me is Verizon who just this August released their only BT phone, the V710, but they disabled the file transfer features which allow the address books in the car and handset to synch up.?
My postings and others in the phone forums instigated a recall of Verizon's BT phones from the shelves of all their stores last week.? People don't want to drive down the highway and tap little buttons when most of those controls and displays can be integrated with the automobile using today's technology.
Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at the same time, and now I am compromising safety, while they are playing games, including false advertising.
I am stuck with Verizon because of a 2 year contract and they have the best data transmission ability in the wireless world.
Bill
My postings and others in the phone forums instigated a recall of Verizon's BT phones from the shelves of all their stores last week.? People don't want to drive down the highway and tap little buttons when most of those controls and displays can be integrated with the automobile using today's technology.
Verizon is holding back on technology that Motorola has already developed. I purchased my $46,000 Bluetooth car and $400 phone at the same time, and now I am compromising safety, while they are playing games, including false advertising.
I am stuck with Verizon because of a 2 year contract and they have the best data transmission ability in the wireless world.
Bill
[snapback]51120[/snapback]
10-30-2004, 11:28 AM
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Paul- I disagree with your assessment that BMW is making a big push with regards to Bluetooth and its technology.. I think they are doing it to keep competative vs. Lexus, Acura, et al. They are behind the times, quite honestly, in regards to technology.. just look at their NAV system vs Lexus, or even Honda/Acura for that matter. it take 3 minutes or more of button turning to locate a destination. Very very antiquated.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while. I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy. Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does. I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it! I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.
As far as Iceman/you contacting BMW, more power to you, but realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands of e60 owners have called over the last year, and all they get is a "I'm sorry, there is NO retrofit for 2004, and no notes as to when, OR IF, it will ever be available [2004]"... so now, you are saying, "Hey, now that you have bluetooth operable, and you weren't even aware of it, can you make it better?"..
Maybe we should be calling BASF.. because they don't make the Bluetooth Module, but maybe, they can make it better! LOL.
Seriously, I would Love for BT to be as good a wired, or even close..it isn't happening for a while. I spoke with some people at Visteon, and Motorola, who make the ULF's, and while they say their chips are fine, the technology is still in its infancy. Believe it or not, the little Motorola HF800 BT speaker is a better solution, quality wise, for about $75.. You lose all functionality of controlling the phone from the Beemer, but what good is a Great stereo with crappy speakers?
As I said before, save your time and money, and forget the cradle solution. 1st, if you change phones, you need to change cradles.. 2. Once again, you will see NO noticeable improvement. NONE. NADA. Borscht!....
Trust me when I say, I love toys, I spend a crap load - on toys.. I am the first to tell you to splurge and buy another toy.. but when I know it doesn't work, I will be the first to save your money until it does. I went through this with the X5.. had the ULF upgraded from version 1 ALL the way to the current version which was specially flowin in from BMW.DE, unreleased in the US.. and guess what... NO noticeable improvement.. it offered SMS ability. that's it! I would rather see you all contact Motorola's Automobile division, the company who makes the ULF via thier Everest chipset... and ask them what they suggest.
We're all gonna get frowned upon for our neverending quest for betterment, but... hopefully we win in the end.