BetterMakeWay

Yaya, then maybe it will be something to think about but by then that car would be in the price range of the ferrari and lambo, so well...get my drift?

pinguhk

I dont see you put any car down, so If you have a e60 then 100% R8
if you dont own a e60 then M6

pinguhk

what if he has a e60 already no need for another practical car.
1 practical, 1 mad supercar

pinguhk

your 100% right itis a sportcar.
but you only live once so I would of wild and get the R8
M6 is like a M5 but 2 door.

JetBlack5OC

Did you guys read that article I posted in an earlier post? It stated the Audi RS4 laps the ring in the same time as a M5. That surprised me a little. I thought maybe it was because the RS4 was a lot lighter. But according to their websites the M5 only weighs 55 more lbs. I remember back in the 80s and 90s BMW was leaps and bounds ahead of Audi and Mercedes as far as performance goes. But I think they have closed the gap considerably. I think it is a good thing for the car industry.

Here is link to the article where it mentions RS4 and M5 lap the ring in the same time.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-R8-to-d...oon-after-8391/

BetterMakeWay

First of all i'd like to clear some things up:

That author from that website got the facts all wrong:

Audi RS4: Weight lb (kg): 3637 (1650)

BMW M5 : Weight lb (kg): 4012 (1821)

Difference in weight: 375 lbs or 171 kgs. So that's quite some weight difference.

Secondly, the weight difference is in a way the prove that those cars are not in the same class. I always used to think that even in the past, E46 M3 was the true competitor of the old S4/RS4 models. M3 vs S4 and top guns M3 CSL vs RS4. The M5 competes in it's own class, with both audi S6 and RS6.

Considering all this i am not 100% sure that the cars lap the ring in the same time. It may be possible but i don't have the facts now and the webiste sounds a bit untrustworthy considering they didn't get the car weights right. HOWEVER even if they lap the ring in the same time, with all due respect to the Nurburging as being the most complex and challenging track, this isn't the one and only benchmark. From what i've seen and heard there are parts of the Ring that aren't that perfect in tarmac quality, parts in which a 4wd vehicle can have an advantage. That was a reason why (H. J. Stuck confirmation) the 997 Porsche Carrera Turbo got better time than the 997 Carrera GT3 (essentially a track car).

That being said, i'm willing to bet my money on the M5 on a lap of Hockenheim, not to mention Monza.

But i agree with you that serious competition is always good for the consumer. This is a general rule.

And for a final quote: " I remember back in the 80s and 90s BMW was leaps and bounds ahead of Audi and Mercedes as far as performance goes. But I think they have closed the gap considerably. "

I agree but it's also true that they did it in their own ways, and especially in some areas of car performance. For instance, as the majority of the automotive specialists admit, AMG cars are very good performers, very fast in straights, but not to poised and ballanced and accurate in the bends, always having problems in front of M cars at handling. The same goes to Audi. With they quattro system they hope to keep pushing having faith in their concept. Like Porsche did when they came out with the rear engine layout, which at first was seen as a joke and now it became a refined masterpice. However i think Audi will never become like that. They already made their quattro system in the present RS4, R8 etc much more rwd biased...i wonder why!?

I rest my case for now and i really do hope some ppl think about this stuff.

///Marco.it

I think this is a quite good reiew of the two cars by a guy working in the motorsport world who used to have an M5 that has been stolen, did buy an RS4 and now has an M5 Touring.

This is the opinion when he get the car...
E60 M5 vs. RS4

This is when he sold it out...
RS4 vs. E61 M5

JetBlack5OC

Where did you get those numbers? I was on their websites and this is what I found.

Audi website: RS4 weight 3957lb

Bmw website: M5 weight 4012lb

Thats why I stated in ealier post a difference of 55lb.

RS4 tech data: http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/new_car...echdata....html

M5 tech data: http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/M/M5Sedan/techdata.htm

The only reasons I could think of why the numbers are different, is the Euro versions are different. Or its unladen weight vs. curb weight.

I am with you man, I just thought it was weird that the RS4 laps the same as the M5. Yep they are definitely in two different classes. Wasn't sure if the article was talking about the entire ring or the Grand Prix portion of the track. They need to throw the two on the Top Gear track and see what happens.

BetterMakeWay

Umm i got the numbers from a reliable source: www.rsportscars.com

But i double checked it on the each on it's own mother site and get this:

BMW M5: 1855kg

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/mser...ngine_data.html

Audi RS4: 1655kg

http://www.audi.de/audi/de/de2/neuwagen/a4...sche_daten.html

SO that's even more than 171kgs initially posted, it's like 200kgs which translates in what? 441lbs?

Now that's a big difference!!! And i'm sure that extra weight will count on track. I'm still waging my $ on the M5.

So i dunno what weights do you guys use there or how accurate the BMW NA and audi US informations are, but from what i've seen BMW NA makes alot of mistakes. I dunno that is the real difference in the 2 models.

BetterMakeWay

Abstracts from the links Marco.it posted:

"..what can i say- i lost about 87 hp in the trade but gained 4 wd and about about 200 kg's lighter..."

Conclusion: no way there's a 55lbs (23kgs) difference between the 2 models. The site information or one or both NA websites numbers are flawed.

More abstracts:

the guy at initial impressions states:
"HANDLING- THE AUDI OUTHANDLES THE M5. THE CAR IS LIGHTER AND FEELS IT AND THE 4WD GIVE YOU THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE IS NO LIMIT. ON WET AND ICY ROADS THE AUDI HAS VERY LITTLE COMPETITION"

and then after no more than a year he gets bored and states:
"the car is like driving a personal computer."
"Driver involvement is what M cars are all about!"

Exactly what i was trying to say. It depends what you wish. If you're the type of guy who wants a fast car and that, with no real soul and poise in it go with the RS4 or R8, if you want a car that will involve you as much as possible for that money take the M5/M6. I for one could not live without having a car with rwd, and without making the tail slide on a daily basis. I don't car that the Audi is a bit faster in the wet, or a lot faster in the snow, i just like the challenge of the rwd system.