pcb5

I've been playing around with putting a foam filter inside the stock tubing and have seen good results. The smoke has not been eleminated completely, but drastically reduced. So, it appears this is a vacuum issue.

AllBlackBMW...do u have leaky valve covers? If so have u replaced them? Where do u think ur vacuum leak is originating?

AllBlackBMW

Ive got one pic which doesnt really describe a lot haha the baffle is in an L shape and goes down half the length of the can. Since Ive put the baffle in ive noticed no smoke. It usually smoked after like 3-5 minutes of idling but so far I havent noticed anything even after long idles. I had bad valve covers last year but that was noticeable because oil was pouring out of my car and leaving stains everywhere. I know I had a leak from my oil cap (very weird) there was oil coming out around the cap and once I replaced it the leaking stopped.

4.8isX5

so your saying it still smoked 3-5 minutes after the catch can install or this was just the normal way 3-5 mins idle then smoke?

Thanks just want to clear this up, i believe i have the same issue of oil getting sucked into my intake manifold and doesnt look like valve seals to me "4.8 engine issue in the X5s of my model"

I switched to 10w-40 oil and it helped a little with the problem but after ~2min mine makes smoke pulling away from a long light, idleing longer then that... well nets you this haha,




coming from my car, the black 4.8is also does it, just not as much, but that was a good 10 minute of idleing and me revving it all out for ~25 sec.

AllBlackBMW

Sorry about the confusion, it used to smoke when idling for 3-5 minutes before the catch cans. Since I installed the catch cans I havent noticed any smoking. When I took off my throttle body and looked into the manifold, I could see oil pooled up and pretty much covering the whole inside of the manifold. This was what convinced me to try the catch cans so I recommend checking it out since it only takes like 5 minutes to removed the tb.

pcb5

Here's another guy that was told he needed valve stems. Instead of catch cans, he tried another route.

Oil consumption ? remedy ? - BMW E60 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com

A B Able Truck

A fix for Oil consumption problems

Investigation of Oil Consumption Issues should begin with the CCV / Intake system. Oil in the intake should not be considered normal and reduced to as minimal amount as possible. Oil that is sucked thru the intake will cause carbon build up on the intake/exhaust valves and the pistons. This will also contribute to catalytic failure and have an effect on engine performance.

My car: 2006 BMW 550I V8 N62TU - 94,500 miles
(No external leaks)
After I replaced the CCVs, It smoked and would not pass Smog Inspection. These issues were fixed with a carbon cleaning chemical regiment (Sea Foam). But it continued to use a quart + of oil every 2>3 tanks of fuel. (Everyone had previously said that this was normal for a BMW) After my modification to the crankcase vent system - It may have used - maybe (it's hard to tell) less then a pint after 2>3 tanks full of fuel.

My Fix: (about 1 hour)
Parts needed; 1 - Scotch Brite (3M) pad #7447
2- Stainless steel garden hose screens
(mine had o-ring attached)
-Cut 4 pieces of Scotch pad approx. 1.75 X 1.75 inches.
-Trim rubber washer attached to the hose screen so it fits snug within the valve cover vent tube.
- With CCV diaphragms removed, fold over 1 piece of pad and insert within the slot of the inlet vent port. Be sure pad is pushed low enough so it will not interfere with the diaphragm when reinstalled, but firm enough to stay in place. Reassemble and repeat on opposite valve cover. This is a pre-filter to prevent oil from CCV.
-With vent tube removed (valve covers to intake), fold over 1 piece of pad and insert within valve cover vent outlet nipple. (It may be necessary to trim some length of pad for vent tube reinstallation) Insert screen above pad - this keeps pad from being sucked into the intake manifold. Repeat on opposite valve over and carefully snap vent tube in place. This is a after CCV filter to stop any oil that may have made it past the pre-filter.
-Top off engine oil and keep track of progress.
- I will continue a carbon cleaning regiment at least every 10,000 miles.

Note; This Scotch Brite pad #7447 is about 1/4 in. thick - a thicker pad can be used as available - just compensate for this change.


(My Original post)
Oil consumption was excessive - It smoked - I was told I needed valve stem seals

My car (didn't pass smog & couldn't renew registration);
2006 BMW 550I – 92,000 miles – V8 (N62TU)
Smokes (white/gray ) – failed visual – Smog Report (15 mph – HC ppm Measured 91 – Max. 49)

Symptoms & history;
It used oil (approx. 1 qt. per 2-3 tanks) and I read the history of V8 valve stem problems (internet & local shop research), I was about to have the valve guide/stem seals replaced or drive the car off a cliff. But it didn’t have the classic symptoms of defective valve stem seals/guides. It also ran like a rapped ape (old school for ran great). I’m a heavy truck mechanic with old school car experience (35 years). The plugs were clean and the exhaust smelled funny, also the exhaust dripped clean water no matter how hot or long it ran. I pulled the intake throttle housing and noticed excessive oil. Replaced the (ccv) diaphragms in the valve covers (torn) & read up on the cyclone oil separator (like a Dyson vacuum). Because I wasn’t happy with the oil consumption & residue in the intake, I fabricated a sponge with screen for each valve cover vent outlet. This cleaned out the oil residue and I assume it will reduce oil consumption while allowing crankcase recirculation, but it did not solve the smoke problem. I pulled the spark plugs and stuck a camera down a couple plug holes. Yes, the top of the pistons were loaded with carbon. So I sprayed Sea Foam in each plug hole, followed by a shot of low pressure shop air to help spread it around the piston. I let it sit for an hour or so, then reinstalled the plugs. I topped off the fuel tank with high octane and added 12 oz. of CRC Fuel System Cleaner (part #05063) to the tank. 100 miles later and what a difference – no smoke or water dipping out the exhaust after warm up. I’m in love with the car again

**The valve stem diameter was increase at a production point (you would assume) to remedy the guide problem. I could't believe BMW would continue to use inferior stem seals after this change. My vehicle has now passed smog test & no longer smokes. I did have to run the proceedure twice before it lowerd the HC levels within specs. And I will probably do it 1 more time for good measure. It cost me $200 to fix compared to the $4000 > $5000 I was told it would take for a guide/seal replacement **

**** Day 25 - 1000+ miles later NO smoke or excessive water from tailpipe - It also **** Does not need any oil ****
For those of you seasoned mechanics replacing guides & seals - This worked for me - my vehicle - my situation - but I believe you should diagnose each vehicle on an individual basis - Regardless of BMW guide/valve stem history.

**Note: I need to give full credit to my 25 yr. old friend/mechanic/smog tech/neighbor for his insistence I try Sea Foam. He works on BMWs, Mercedes and other makes. I never heard of Sea Foam (we used Justice Brothers in my hay day) and I didn't believe it would solve my issue. Although it was my idea to soak the piston tops first before spraying it thru the intake. I'll also take credit for the sponge/foam/screen in the PCV hose idea. **

A B Able Truck

Autospeed published 8/18/2009 Issue 554

Almost without exception, commercial petrols would build up deposits on the components of an engine's intake system over time if they weren't additized. A number of additives have been developed which prevent and/or remove intake system deposits. Unfortunately, some of them increase combustion chamber deposits, solving one problem, but creating another. Since all base petrols are formulated to the same regulated specifications, the performance of the deposit control additive is one of the few features that differentiates one brand of petrol from another.

* Fuel Injectors and Carburetors
Fuel injectors are designed to accurately meter fuel to the engine and to deliver it in a precise pattern of fine droplets. Because the fuel passages are small, injectors are highly sensitive to small amounts of deposits in the critical regions where the fuel is metered and atomized. These deposits can reduce fuel flow and alter the spray pattern, degrading drivability, decreasing power and fuel economy and increasing emissions. Deposits cause similar problems for carbureted engines because carburetors also use a number of small channels and orifices to meter fuel. Port fuel injector (PFI) deposits are believed to form during the hot soak period after the engine has been turned off. The stationary petrol trapped in the injector is exposed to a higher temperature for a longer time than the petrol which flowed through the injector when the engine was running. The heat degrades the petrol, initiating deposit formation.

* Intake Valves and Ports
Intake valves and ports are subject to more deposit build up than fuel injectors because they operate at higher temperatures. Heavy valve and port deposits reduce maximum engine power because they restrict airflow. Intake valve deposits also have been shown to affect exhaust emissions. In some very sensitive modern fuel-injected engines, low levels of intake valve deposits can degrade cold start and warm-up driveability. Other valve deposit problems include valve sticking in very cold weather - because deposits interfere with the valve stem sliding in its guide, and burned valves - because severe deposits prevent the valve from seating properly.

* Combustion Chamber
When an engine is brand new, its octane number requirement is determined by its design and the quality of its manufacture. Generally, it will not knock when operated on petrol with the antiknock quality prescribed by the manufacturer. However, the engine's octane requirement increases as combustion chamber deposits form during the first several thousand kilometers of operation. If the increase is large enough, the recommended petrol octane rating may not prevent knocking or, if the vehicle is equipped with a knock sensor, the loss of power which accompanies knock suppression may occur.

Combustion chamber deposit interference (CCDI) is a new problem that has occurred in a few modern engines. It is the result of physical contact between deposits located on the piston top and cylinder head and is manifested as a very loud banging sound when the engine is cold. CCDI is limited to the engines which have been designed, primarily to reduce emissions, to have minimal clearance -1 millimetre or less - between some areas of the piston top and the cylinder head (squish areas) when the piston is at top dead centre. Deposits contribute to CCDI, but poor control of manufacturing tolerances in the susceptible engines also can be a factor. CCDI occurs primarily at cold-start. The interference and the telltale sound disappear as the engine warms up and the thermal expansion of the various engine components increases the clearance between the piston top and head at top dead centre.

Historical Development of Deposit Control Additives

* Carburetor Detergent
This class of additives consists of relatively inexpensive low-molecular-weight surfactants used at low concentrations. When introduced in 1954, they were effective in preventing and, in many cases, removing deposits from carburetor throttle bodies. However, they could not handle deposits in other parts of the carburetor, like the air bleeds, or in the rest of the engine intake system. The introduction of PCV and EGR emission control systems in the 1960s and 1970s increased deposit levels in the whole intake system. As a result, carburetor detergents were not as effective as they were in the simpler 1950s vehicles.

* Detergent-Dispersants
This class of additives consists of polybutene succinimides. Additives with similar chemistry had been used widely as engine oil dispersants before the chemistry was applied to petrol in 1968. Detergent-dispersants are used at concentrations three to five times higher than carburetor detergents. Their performance is sometimes improved by using them in combination with a petroleum carrier oil. They provide keep-clean performance for the intake manifold and intake ports. But they don't control intake valve deposits and have poor carburetor and fuel injector clean-up performance.

* Deposit Control (DC) Additives
The first additive of this class was introduced in 1970. It was based on polybutene amine chemistry and was used in combination with a carrier oil. While they have to be used at higher concentrations than detergent-dispersants, DC additives provide benefits throughout the engine intake system. They clean-up - and keep-clean - the throttle body and upper areas of the carburetor, fuel injectors, intake manifold, intake ports, and intake valves.

Lead salts are a combustion catalyst for carbon, so the shift to unleaded petrol changed the nature of combustion chamber deposits. When the first generation DC additives were used in unleaded petrol, they continued to control intake system deposits, but increased combustion chamber deposits. In response, a second generation DC additive designed specifically for use with unleaded petrol was developed and introduced in 1980. It was based on new polyether amine chemistry, which provides excellent deposit control performance throughout the intake system without contributing to combustion chamber deposits or causing any other adverse side effects.

* No Harm and Compatibility
DC additives are used at concentrations which are twenty to fifty times higher than the concentrations of other petrol additives. At these higher concentrations, they have the potential to affect petrol properties, fuel system materials and engine oils. So DC additives are tested for the absence of negative attributes (no harm) as well as for the positive attribute of controlling deposits. The additized fuel must be fully compatible with the elastomers and metals it will contact. Also it must have good water tolerance and not contribute to spark plug fouling or crankcase sludge formation.

* Required Additive Use
Because of the relationship between decreased deposits and decreased emissions, all motor petrol sold in the United States must contain an additive which provides a minimum level of deposit control performance. This requirement was established by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 and became effective in January 1995. A similar requirement has been in effect in California since January 1992. Additive manufacturers are required to obtain EPA certification for their additives. The certification request must include documentation of the additive's effectiveness in specified fuel injector keep-clean and intake valve keep-clean tests and the additive concentration at which this performance is achieved. Certification may be obtained for use nationwide, for use in specific areas of the United States, or for use with particular types of petrol. Nationwide certification requires using a test petrol which meets ASTM D 4814, but has a greater tendency to form deposits than the average petrol.

Petrol formulators must add a certified deposit control additive to their petrol at the certification concentration level or higher. Over some range, higher concentrations often provide improved performance; for instance, changing keep-clean performance to clean-up performance. Historically, some petrol brands have provided much higher deposit control performance than the certification performance required by the EPA. For competitive reasons, they probably will continue to do so.

* Aftermarket Additives
Aftermarket additives are additives intended to be added by the customer to a petrol (or oil) which is already in the customer's vehicle. Engine deposits are affected by engine design, driving conditions, petrol base fuel quality, and petrol additives. While all petrol must contain a deposit control additive, some additives are less effective than others or are used at concentrations which are less effective. In addition, some vehicle designs form heavier deposits than others, and some vehicle designs are extremely sensitive to deposits which do form. Aftermarket deposit control additives are available which can clean-up deposits which have formed due to these circumstances. Treating one tankful of petrol with the aftermarket additive is often sufficient. However, additive chemistry and dosage play large roles in determining the effectiveness of the product. Polyetheramine-based aftermarket additives have been shown to be particularly effective at providing excellent intake system and combustion chamber deposit clean-up.

Additional info;
http://www.shipkiller.com/SI%20B%201...ust%202010.pdf

AllBlackBMW

You should post some pics of your setup so people get a better idea of what you did. Both of these diy's may help people save thousands

A B Able Truck

I'll work on it tonight - I'm not computer savvy. What's the best way to post several pictures in a group like the poster did at start of this thread?

A B Able Truck

Per my fix post