frankgeo

2004 E60 530i 85K
Wy wife told me she experienced once last week a drop in acceleration. She was flooring the gas and the tranny must have failed that one time. After that all right.
last night I was going to the pharmacy for a test just 2 miles away. driving slowly. I decided to switch into 'manual', the plus minus. car was fine it was in m1. then I started and I got a message:
"transmission fault drive moderately blah blah blah". I said, what the heck? I changed back to automatic and drove half a mile to pharmacy. came out, drove the car and everything seemed normal. Again did not hear any noises or any weird behavior...
I checked for error codes and nothing...I did some reading and they say it could be anything and until transmission really breaks your won't get any code? that's ridiculous.

I inspected bottom of the car. there are no leaks on the floor. But looking at the car's bottom plastic panel I did see a dark oil stain, driver's side. See the circle in the picture below. So I guess there must be some internal leaking but not strong to get the floor for now...
what would you recommend?
thank you in advance!

KyleB

You say you checked for error codes...if the transmission went into failsafe that many times, you most definitely have faults stored in EGS. You need to have someone retrieve the fault codes from the EGS and report back what they are; if you're using a generic OBD scanner you likely won't see anything-you need someone that has BMW specific software.

what fault codes did you see in there??

Those floor coverings can hold A LOT of fluid. It's a really good idea to remove them and visually inspect the engine and trans for leaks; I do it every time I change the engine oil.

By the way I've BTDT with this whole thing, so I can probably help.

frankgeo

Hey Kyle, thanks so much for giving me some 'direction'. I will try to get some codes as you recommend. My idea was to drop it off at BMW or Ronin of Fullerton (here in SoCal). But if I'm able to get a BMW scanner I will post here.
BTW I see you have my same exact car. What was the problem with yours and how much $$$?
thanks again!

frankgeo

Hey Kyle, I was able to get the codes out...4f85 is the 'winner'...so I read
Fault Code 4f85 [Archive] - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums
it could be anything from a leaking seal,to a defective bushing, to replace the entire tranny...
what should I do in your opinion?
skilled mechanic shop or dealer?

thanks again

Frank

KyleB

OK frank, so 4F85 is basically saying the EGS registered 'slipping' in the E drum of the gearbox. It is INCREDIBLY common in this gearbox. The E drum is basically the first clutch in the gearbox closest to the engine, and the E clutch is integrated into the input shaft of the trans; the support bushing for that shaft is inherently weak, and can wear out prematurely. Unless you have a ton of mileage on your car or are incredibly unluck, it's more likely that the bushing is OK and the reason for slippage is that the E clutch isn't being engaged fast enough due to low fluid pressure. That pressure is controlled by the EGS and solenoids in the valve body. It's VERY likely your solenoids are toast. This is the same exact problem and code I was dealing with in my car (also an '04 530i). I'd be willing to bet some bucks that the same process that fixed my car will fix yours. If you go to BMW they're going to tell you that you need a new transmission. BMW only knows how to solve transmission fault codes by taking a shotgun blast approach and replacing the whole thing. DO NOT take your car to the dealer for this problem.

Here is a thread I created months ago. Best of luck with the car, let me know if you think there's anything I can offer to help out.

https://5series.net/forums/diy-do-yo...thread-137584/

I see you have 85K on your car and are already experiencing some sort of transmission problems. Hey ZF, nice job!!! You designed, built, and sold transmissions that can't even make it to 100K safely without experiencing major problems. I know how I would remedy that problem. I'd....wait, what's that? Your solution is to cram even more gears into a casing no bigger than what you used to put 5 speeds in? 8 speeds now you say? Great idea guys!! You're RAD!!!!! I guess we should warn F30 owners of what's to come down the road. BMW would do themselves and everyone else a favor if they stopped sourcing automatic transmissions from ZF and sourced them from companies that do automatics really well (I'm looking at you GM and Mercedes-Benz)

/rant

frankgeo

hey Kyle, thanks so much for the great info!

I'm in SoCal, do you know anyone honest who could do the job for me? I've done in the past small jobs but doing this honestly scares me quite a bit. Also I have a full time job, not all the space/tools which would need...

How many hours do you think it could take? 3-4? how much in parts? maybe $1000 total between parts and labor?

Many recommend Ronin in Fullerton but kind of far from my area which is San Bernardino. Anyone interested reading this post would be interested in PMing me?

Again, thanks again Kyle I now need to find someone who can follow your fantastic step by step guide.

thank you in advance!

ilham007

Mine is also a 04 530i with 105k on the cluster. I faced this like a lot of times even after chaging the transmission fluid from my dealer. I advice you to warm your car up properly before you decide to drive off. It works!

KyleB

I spent roughly $900 in parts, but that was for a lot of new fluid (enough to drain and fill twice), new pan, a second pan gasket, mechatronic seal, and the solenoids, etc. If you plan on doing this I'd order solenoids, a fluid change kit that will include the pan, gasket, and fluid, mechatronic seal, bridge seal, the four sealing sleeves, and a new fill plug. Off the top of my head I'd say that's 6 to 700 in parts. Expect a competent transmission shop to bill 3 to 5 hours, maybe a touch more. I was able to do it in about 3 hours or so.

Find a shop that routinely services ZF transmissions and they'll have no problems doing this. it IS a bit of a gamble, since you could genuinely have a problem with the E drum, the clutch plates in that drum, or an entire valve body gone bad. My money is still on solenoids since it is sooooooo incredibly common.

best of luck.

frankgeo

hey Kyle, so this 'good' mechanic, told me 4f85 is a TCM failure. So it's purely electronic NO MECHANICAL. He thinks 'only thing to do' would be software upgrade, then see if it comes out again. If it does, new TCM or new transmission...
give me a break $4000 minimum...didn't say a thing about possible solenoids or possible seal...I think I won't take it there.
here is my strategy.
1) clear out all codes
2) drive the car "nicely"
3) if the code pops up again (it only happened 1 time) then I will follow Kyle's recommendation to the letter...but just doing a software upgreade seems a waste of time and money...

KyleB

That's hightly doubtful. A software update will likely do nothing for you. 4F85 is telling you that the E clutch slipped at some point. Hell, if you read it with INPA it will tell you what rpm it slipped at and the exact mileage when it happened. So I'm sorry to say but I'm pretty confident that mechanic is DEAD WRONG. 4F85 isn't a TCM failure, it's a specific fault code referencing a fault for a specific component, in this case it's for the E drum in the gearbox. By his logic, a check engine light for a cam position sensor means you need a new engine. That's nuts.

By new 'TCM' he wants to replace the valve body, which has the block, solenoids, and computer all integrated in one unit. Think of the transmission as two main components that get replaced; the mechatronic (valve body), or the entire transmission. Sounds to me like he's taking a shotgun blast approach. And $4K is ludicrous, considering a fully refurbished valve body can be had from ZF for around $1500. I'd love to know where the other $2500 is coming from. That's robbery.

You can drive the car nicely, but if you get 4F85 or any other 'slip' code again you definitely need to do something about it ASAP. clutch packs inside of an automatic transmission do not like to slip repeatedly (hence the christmas tree of warnings when it happens even once), and if you let it go too long you WILL be replacing that entire transmission.

Again, I can't guarantee that replacement solenoids will fix your problem, but they are a known weakness in this transmission, and replacement of them along with all of the related seals have resulted in a lot of people having successfully repaired transmissions. I'm pretty confident that if you went the same route I did you'd solve your problem.

If you do go that route make certain that you also replace the bridge seal, four sealing sleeves, and mechatronic sealing sleeve along with the solenoids. That $12 bridge seal will wreak havoc if it's worn, as will those four sealing sleeves. when I compared old to new, all four sleeves were noticeably shrunken, and the rubber portion of the bridge seal was worn and brittle. Proper pressures and fluid travel are vital to an automatic transmission.

Again, best of luck to you.