poleposition

If we had a private members only type area of the forum where only members who pay a subscription fee can go, I think the forums would become much more enjoyable again. The childish banter would be reduced to a select few and you easily avoid all trolling and instigators. This site is so much less enjoyable than it was years ago. I think its partly due to these E60's being much more affordable nowadays. The entry fee used to be $50k+ for an E60. These days, as more and more people can get into these cars in the $20's the site attracts the graduates from the honda,acura,nissan boards. Please dont misconstrue my comments as elitist but the facts are the facts. If you are insulted, I guess you know where you stand. There are always exceptions. There are many recent members who I would consider an asset to the boards. Even from those aforementioned brands. There is also an extreme amount of silliness, Argumentative nonsense, and negative energy. I KNOW, I speak for many other members when I say this place is more and more childish by the day. I, the same as many of you, have a limited amount of time in my day and night to surf the web and read thru threads. I hate when I find myself reading absolute nonsense. Sometimes they're like car wrecks and you cant look away. This subscription based area of the forum may just eliminate the nonsense. Also, if in fact others view this as a good idea, the fee should probably be a yearly subscription fee and not too cheap so as to avoid the internet idiots. Curious as to other seasoned members opinions on this. Not doing a poll as that is for the powers that be to determine if its even a viable idea to begin with.

Have at it!

Rudy

I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure it will solve the problem. Right now, most of the offenders I think you're referring to are all contributors and would likely contribute to the "pay site" as well.

What I think we need to do, and many have started to do, is simply band together and call these people out. Obviously, if there are posts that are extrememly offensive, etc., the board's reporting function should be used as well. I don't mean just list names, I mean when someone posts something offensive or inappropriate, reply to that thread and say so. If enough members do that, the offending member might get the message. Obviously, we will continue to moderate and warn people whenever the need arises but, as you know, in the past the maturity level was much higher here and we didn't need to deal with this sort of stuff very much.

As we discussed in another recent thread, there are way more "good" members than "bad" members so if we all do our share to let people know that their posting style is not welcome here, they will have the choice of changing it, leaving for another place, or risk getting banned.

craigm1841

i am not a seasoned member, and i have done my fair share of riff raff contributions from time to time, (more so in my first few months here) but i exclude myself from inappropriate threads. I treasure this forum due to the incredibly technical information I have received from other enthusiasts. I enjoy sharing thoughts and opinions that are non car related with like minded people as well. At least people who I think are like minded. Professional, successful, educated adults. I only became a member 10 months ago and i have seen a significant change in the forums since then. so much so that even I, the occasional riff raffer just can't bother to come around as much. my activity here has significantly dropped in the past few weeks.

I wouldn't be against paying annual dues for use of parts of the forums. I have no qualms against paying $100+, but I would only be willing to pay if it does keep out some of the nonsense that the site is quickly becoming infested with.

545felix

you know what would kill it off pretty quick? having the option of excluding the lounge from the "view new posts" link. let those who feel like talking that trash do so in the lounge without getting in our way. i don't know if the vbulletin software will let you do that or not, though.

pennetta

I haven't been reading the posts here as often as in the past, so I may have missed something. I think many times the arguments are because of different perspectives and different points being made while thinking you are discussing the same thing. I am an offender of that too at times, unwittingly at first until you realize you are way off topic and then you ease off.
I do think with a smaller group you know the individuals better, and many on this thread I have met personally, so better manners would prevail.
Its alway hard to read tone and sarcasm in this medium so things get escalated quicker. If we all bail on the main forum and join a subscription site, it will hurt the main forum.
Rudy is correct that many offenders are contributors and long term members. I also think Kerry is spot on and we should use it as a wakeup call to behave better. I know my recent involvement in the "Weight vs Handling" which started as a "535 vs 550 handling question" went further than it should have; I did try to end it nice after I realized though.
I have learned things from members not in this thread but Whatever you guys want to do is fine with me.

melimel

Interesting.. I'm thinking im just exhausted and just got back from a bike ride, so excuse me if my brain is lax. I dont feel offended by this thread. The forums have taken a different road (not necessarily a good road) the past 6 months or so which have definitly changed my thoughts about this place. I still learn valuable information, but the demeaner has changed. The "riff raff" is ridiculous and I myself have even become involved in it. I feel the respect toward each other used to be higher and even that has dwindled.

I also agree with Rudy in that we need to tell and comment on the posters that are writing inappropriate and offensive. Maybe, and I say this with great hope.. Maybe it will diminish and we can all be respectful again. I believe everyone has the right to post their opinion and all, but alot more lately I see people calling each other names in such derogatory ways it makes me sick. There are ways to speak to one another and I sadly feel its crossed a line that is seemingly impossible to recover from to make this forum a welcoming, happy place once again where everyone enjoys each others company and welcomes comments.(long sentence I know) We all share common interests or we wouldnt be on this forum in the first place and I think we need to remember that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel some respect has gone out the window.

I love this place and have made so many friends here, some that I see and some that I dont. I even run into so many members lately on the streets that know my car from this forum! Its amazing! Lets clean it up a bit, maybe if what Rudy suggests doesnt change things we can move on to bigger measures? (just a thought? kinda like a warning?) Or maybe moderators could be stricter with a no-tolerance-crap-poilcy? (just another thought?)

Mel

Rudy

I believe that can be done and sure, that might help out but that's assuming we can't actually solve the problem we're facing. To me, excluding the lounge from the "view new posts" function is a band-aid or workaround solution.

I think we need to hold people to a higher standard, period. Sure, the lounge is often a nice place to spend some time with games, jokes, discussions about things other than cars, etc. but some people have taken that forum past it's original intentions. When you can't safely browse the forum at work or when children are in the room, I think we've gone astray...

As we've said a million times before, this is first and foremost a forum about BMW 5 series cars. If I want to see photos of scantily clad women, there are plenty of places out there (so I've heard ) where I can do that.

Please everyone, let's raise the bar a bit and keep it raised!

EuroCarFan

I don't believe having the exclusive membership will help. Money is not going to keep the wrong people out. I agree with Rudy's comments that we just need to band together to correct the problem.

That said, how do you define the problem? A lot of veteran members here were and sometimes are just as guilty of starting and contributing to idle banter and nonsense posts as relative newcomers that are being blame for this problem. And a lot of us aren't offended because we know those folks so it's acceptable whereas if someone newer did the same thing, people feel like it's inappropriate.

Rudy

Sure, defining the problem may be a challenge but when you really think about it, it may not be so difficult. It's about the content and tone of the post that I feel we should be evaluating. Sure, there are times when many of us (myself included) will post nonsense or sarcastic remarks to help lighten things up a bit but I don't think I've ever done so with disrespect, insults, or four letter words.

If we start with those posts that are simply inappropriate (disrespectful, insulting, etc.) from the get go, it doesn't matter to me whether they're a longstanding member or a newbie. They need to be called out (respectfully) by others so they can either learn how to conform or be shown the door.

Think about some of our more famous banned members -- RWB, stream, etc. They were all banned back when the tolerance level of such nonsense was much lower. Today, these guys would look like saints compared to the crap we have to sift through. Even RWB, who tried and tried to conform -- I truly believe he was never trying to be malicious with his posts, he was just a bit clueless, I'm afraid -- by returning as someone else proved to us that people either can change or they can not. If he's back now under a new name and behaving well, then I don't think I have a problem with that...

Iceman

Excluding the Lounge from "view new posts" would be good!