Originally Posted by pjinca

I would agree with that, this IS a capitalist country. However, the disparity between the haves and have nots is getting much bigger and it is NOT due solely to laziness. The very rich are doing more than ever to protect their wealth and keep it within their social level, including congressman, senators, and the White House.
Look at the constant lack of funding for public education, the fact that the haves can send their children to private schools so they don't care that the public schools suck - in fact they probably prefer it. Then take into account the last round of cuts proposed by the Republicans, they wanted to eliminate HeadStart programs, despite the fact that studies show children who go to preschool are 70% more likely to graduate college. Why did they do this? Certainly not to "save the country" like they like to bullshit. It is not economical, since the cost of HeadStart programs in miniscule. It is social, because those that benefit from are the less fortunate, parents who are just hoping their children have a better future than them, but they want to deny them that.
I am not speaking from experience, I went to private school from preschool to 8th grade and went to a public high school only because I chose to (I was sick of wearing a uniform at the time, then right after high school I enlisted - go figure).

My point is instead of useless programs like farm subsidies and subsidies for oil companies we should focus on making this country live up to the bullshit that have apparently even clouded Vladdy's mind. If you think this is "the land of opportunity" you are sadly mistaken, your chances of making it to even middle class if you're poor are slim to nil. In my view the ONLY thing the government should provide is a GOOD education and healthcare, because without a good education and your health you have no shot at making past minimum wage.
Anyone who starts a conversation with the old tag line: "Anyone can make it in this country" is about to feed you some serious bullshit. That has not been true since before the founding fathers. In this country it's all about who you know (and poor people don't know rich people) and how much your parents made.

Originally Posted by sdg1871

I agree with some but not all of what you said my friend.

I agree that a top notch public education is one of the cornerstones of a successful society and is one of the building blocks of opportunity. But throwing money alone at public education is not the answer. Here in NYC, we spend an absolute king's ransom per public and we'e sharply increased teacher salaries and yet the school system's quality of education still sucks. I think we should pay teachers very well but hold them accountable -- just like private business holds its employees accountable. A lifetime guaranteed job which you can't lose short of boning a student is not a recipe for success.

I also agree that Headstart is an important program that should be fully funded. And farm subsidies that largely go not to small farmers but to some of the biggest agribusiness companies in the world (where our farm subsidies largely go) is shameful and a waste of money.

But I still believe that anyone who is sufficiently smart and motivated can make it in this country. Sure connections and family money helps but there are plenty of super successful people out there who had neither. In my experience, the number 1 thing that divides those who succeed from those that don't is drive (hunger, motivation). And is you are sufficiently driven and hungry, you can succeed in this country even with no family money and no family connections.

Originally Posted by kscarrol

The problem is not a lack of spending on education, it is how the money is spent. That is no different than any other government spending, how efficient is it? At the end of the day, the government is not an efficient allocator of capital. In some areas like defense, it may be necessary. But overall, many voters are disillusioned about government's ability to efficiently spend tax dollars. To the point, spending on education has consistently risen and if you look at the official US gov't stats, we are not underfunding education. It is hard to argue that spending on education is consistently lacking when you look at spending relative to other developed countries...

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fe...ite-chart.html

Originally Posted by juris335

Before the level of funding impacts educational results one must first examine the devastating impact of the breakdown of the family. It correlates directly and postively with the downward trend in educational results.

When children are having children; when grandparentrs are raising children because there is no father identified and the mother does not mother; when a teacher cannot discipiline a child for interfering with the educational process; when we ask our teachers to do more parenting duties every year vs. teaching...we have a formula for disaster.

After discussing the impact of the above on educational results ...then lets discuss how funding, or lack thereof, impacts the problem.