Originally Posted by EersNC' post='899766' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:10 PM

President Obama has announced more federal spending since he took office than the other 43 previous Presidents combined. His profligacy will swamp all federal spending for the previous 233 years.

Government is at the root of our current crisis. While the proximate "cause" was a financial system collapse, it is obvious from looking at the OP's sources that the financial system and government are intimately intertwined. Whether it is Congress that is beholden to the financial system, or the other way around (the names at the top of that list are no friends of bankers), may be a matter of debate, but the implication is clear: the government is too involved in the operation of the country.

There weren't mass consumer bankruptcies prior to Congress stepping in and telling banks to lend to people that shouldn't be borrowing money.

Health care didn't cause this crisis, and "fixing" it won't do anything to stop this one or prevent one in the future. In fact, devoting an even larger part of the American economy to the government is likely to precipitate another crisis on down the road. Social Security is bankrupt, Medicare is in even worse shape, and we believe this moron when he tells us the government is going to make health care better and cheaper? Not a chance. Who wants a committee of government bureaucrats determining your health care? And if they're paying for it, don't they have a say in your behavior? Since, of course, what you eat, drink, even what you drive, could have some impact on your need for health care. BS. Not me. I'm 26, but I know one day I'll need the services of a doctor, and I sure as hell don't want some nose-picking government employee telling me which doctor to see and what treatments I'm eligible for.

Right now wealthy Canadians and Europeans come to America to get the care they don't have access to at home. Pretty soon, they'll have to find someplace else.

Health care isn't a system. Schools aren't an educational system. They're markets. The more government involvement in either the worse the outcomes will be. Why do wealthy folks send their kids to private schools? It sure as hell isn't like they enjoy spending the money, it's just that they know the quality is a thousand times better. So why in God's name would we want to do to our health system what we've done to our schools? Schools are effectively a single-provider system. Unless you pay extra to go to private school you're stuck paying for public school...there is no choice--and you don't get your money back on the public schools that aren't educating your kids. Competition is what lowers prices and gives better service. A government-run health system would be the same way: one "provider." Politicians will have you believe that it is a "single-payer system." No it isn't! It's the 50 million or so folks in this country that actually pay taxes that will be paying the freight for everyone else...just like with schools where it is the property owners from a town that pay the taxes to run the schools that babysit everyones' kids.

Our schools suck because the government runs them. Let's not do the same thing to our health care system.

You want to reform health care? How about having the government step away. If your heart still bleeds for the folks that didn't have enough sense to save for their own care, give them the money from Medicaid and let them spend it as they see fit. Who are we to entrust their care to the government?

Who are we to use the threat of force to take from our fellow citizens what is rightfully theirs and to give it to someone else?

Originally Posted by pjinca' post='899855' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:19 PM

Here is what someone should've told Bush:

"Calling you stupid would be an insult to stupid people!!! I know sheep that could outwit you!!!!" - Fish called Wanda

Originally Posted by porsche911targa' post='899907' date='Jun 3 2009, 07:05 PM

At least Obama is spending money on America. This country has been overlooked for so long ( eight years, to be exact) that it's going to take at least 16 years to take it back to what it was eight years ago.

Originally Posted by EersNC' post='899766' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:10 PM

President Obama has announced more federal spending since he took office than the other 43 previous Presidents combined. His profligacy will swamp all federal spending for the previous 233 years.

Government is at the root of our current crisis. While the proximate "cause" was a financial system collapse, it is obvious from looking at the OP's sources that the financial system and government are intimately intertwined. Whether it is Congress that is beholden to the financial system, or the other way around (the names at the top of that list are no friends of bankers), may be a matter of debate, but the implication is clear: the government is too involved in the operation of the country.

There weren't mass consumer bankruptcies prior to Congress stepping in and telling banks to lend to people that shouldn't be borrowing money.

Health care didn't cause this crisis, and "fixing" it won't do anything to stop this one or prevent one in the future. In fact, devoting an even larger part of the American economy to the government is likely to precipitate another crisis on down the road. Social Security is bankrupt, Medicare is in even worse shape, and we believe this moron when he tells us the government is going to make health care better and cheaper? Not a chance. Who wants a committee of government bureaucrats determining your health care? And if they're paying for it, don't they have a say in your behavior? Since, of course, what you eat, drink, even what you drive, could have some impact on your need for health care. BS. Not me. I'm 26, but I know one day I'll need the services of a doctor, and I sure as hell don't want some nose-picking government employee telling me which doctor to see and what treatments I'm eligible for.

Right now wealthy Canadians and Europeans come to America to get the care they don't have access to at home. Pretty soon, they'll have to find someplace else.

Health care isn't a system. Schools aren't an educational system. They're markets. The more government involvement in either the worse the outcomes will be. Why do wealthy folks send their kids to private schools? It sure as hell isn't like they enjoy spending the money, it's just that they know the quality is a thousand times better. So why in God's name would we want to do to our health system what we've done to our schools? Schools are effectively a single-provider system. Unless you pay extra to go to private school you're stuck paying for public school...there is no choice--and you don't get your money back on the public schools that aren't educating your kids. Competition is what lowers prices and gives better service. A government-run health system would be the same way: one "provider." Politicians will have you believe that it is a "single-payer system." No it isn't! It's the 50 million or so folks in this country that actually pay taxes that will be paying the freight for everyone else...just like with schools where it is the property owners from a town that pay the taxes to run the schools that babysit everyones' kids.

Our schools suck because the government runs them. Let's not do the same thing to our health care system.

You want to reform health care? How about having the government step away. If your heart still bleeds for the folks that didn't have enough sense to save for their own care, give them the money from Medicaid and let them spend it as they see fit. Who are we to entrust their care to the government?

Who are we to use the threat of force to take from our fellow citizens what is rightfully theirs and to give it to someone else?

Originally Posted by EersNC' post='899766' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:10 PM

President Obama has announced more federal spending since he took office than the other 43 previous Presidents combined. His profligacy will swamp all federal spending for the previous 233 years.

Originally Posted by EersNC' post='899766

Not that I'd normally let something as trivial as the facts get in the way of a good rant, but the last 11 alone presidents presided over more than $55 trillion in government expenditure (and that number only goes from 1945 through 2003, so the prior incumbent's biggest spending from 2004 through 2008 isn't even included). Projecting out to last year using the 2003 number as the base for 2004 to 2008 brings us up to over $70 trillion.

So no. He hasn't.

Originally Posted by DRANGED' post='900388' date='Jun 3 2009, 09:39 PM

If we are going to start throwing around #'s could we please cite the source and link to said #'s.

"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time."