needforspeed

I am in agreement with Andy here in respect of the palestinian state. Self governance is the answer.

Clearly there are groups who desire the destruction of Israel (including apparently the Iranian govt). I don't believe that they truly represent the majority of Palestinians (or arabs).

Unfortunately the history of the Palestine / Israel conflict is such that Palestinian children are taught from an early age that Israel have stolen their land.

Israel has treated Palestinians harshly over the years and that this causes many to try to 'fight back' which increases support for groups like Hamas.

If Israel want to end this conflict they have to respect the Palestinian people. In turn the support for radical groups intent on the destruction of Israel will diminish. Measures like the 'wall' add fuel to the fire.

With every new generation there is an opportunity to end this. It is not necessarily the case that Israel cannot co-exist peacefully with it's neighbours. There just needs to be a will to find common ground.

Heiss5

needforspeed:

I think I see your logic when talking about the continued Israeli attacks being counterproductive. However, part of me can't help but think that maybe these attacks are actually helping the situation. Albeit in a fairly twisted way, but these attacks have certainly caused a public outcry and increased awareness about the current situation. People are starting to ask questions and wonder what is going on and why it's going on. I think without this people would still feel this situation does not involve/affect them. It is very tragic the way these events had to unfold and I don't necessarily condone any of the action that has been taken. However it has made many people very uneasy, and it's only when that happens that people actually begin to take action. I hope you are right about the UN finally stepping in, and I also hope that both sides listen as well. Things will continue to get very ugly if both sides don't start listening to each other's demands again.

Bimmer32

This thread is great, and I've enjoyed reading everyone's message word for word . . . Unfortunately, I'm quite bored. Yes, I'm bored . . . Have you ever watched a bunch of kids at the playground . . . girls talking about who has what, other kids fighting over a swing, boys playing, fighting, and chasing, etc.?

We say that we have grown up and matured, but really, we've just made matters and things around us more complicated. Are we so tragic that we make things complicated for us without a purpose, or is it our natural evolution to complicated things, fight, and resolved them to ensure our own survival? And for those peace lovers and advocates, thanks for helping us stay focus. . . . that which is perfect and harmonious, that which we must all strive to attain, but that which most of us cannot practice because of our tragic nature (tragic in the sense of poetic, not devastation).

And so this thread tragically and lucidly reflects the current crisis in the MidEast. You apologize before you offend someone with your opinion . . . you express your opinion backed by a list of other opinions, news, and sources claiming "historical facts." And you can do your own reflections to add to the end of this sentence. Sure, very intellectual and high-calibre discussions to the degree that some messages are good enough to be quoted in doctoral papers.

If you haven't been able to read between the lines in this message, then you are the people of your time and generations after you will look at you and shake their heads . . . and so this thread will continue until the next big conflict and we all will naturally progress to it.

How do conflicts get resolve in the playgrounds? There's a winner and there's a loser. The losers either go home quiet, or come back with a vengance. Or in some cases, a castrophic event occurs such as a teacher punishing every participants (analogous to natural devastation) or the historical events of Einstein's E=mc^2.

This thread, is without doubt, enlighten for all readers and I've enjoyed it. The intellect in me would like to thank everyone for their thought-filled and time dedication postings, but the kid in me is saying, "blah, blah, blah."

Iceman

...and: FIGHT!

needforspeed

Your post makes a lot of sense.

At least you recognise that it's your 'inner child' (irony) that wants to yell 'so what' in the playground and 'fight'.

... but .... whilst people will always be people .... and that means they will always do stupid selfish things ... we can try ... can't we?

Bimmer32

In the sentence structure of Master Yoda (Star Wars), "Try as we may, survival, we will." "Fight we must, our survival to insure." You guys and gals are great.

needforspeed

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.



Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.