Thoughts on Mideast Conflict
08-01-2006, 08:56 AM
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I am no friend of Israel and their politics.
But:
They were attacked, and they have the right to defend themselves. I agree that it is very disturbing. But the innocent people were warned and the terrorists are hiding in between them. So, what should Israel do?
The whole situation seems to get out of control in the middle east.
It's very sad.
But:
They were attacked, and they have the right to defend themselves. I agree that it is very disturbing. But the innocent people were warned and the terrorists are hiding in between them. So, what should Israel do?
The whole situation seems to get out of control in the middle east.
It's very sad.
What kind of human beings strap bombs to their children as suicide bombers? Seems when they kill their own children intentionally it it OK. But if Israel accidentally kills children it is a crime against humanity.
"The fight against terrorism" to apply agendas/get rich has been one of the biggest conspiracies of our modern times.
Second and to the issue, you have mentioned the kids with bombs, suicide etc. Are you aware of the cause/motivation behind these people who have no other means than throw stones to a military power?
However independant evidence (including an assesment by the UN) is that a huge number of civillians have been killed, injured and displaced by the bombings.
The saddest thing is that this whole sorry situation came close to peace - until the assasination of Rabin by right wing extremists and the death of Arafat.
Lets remember that Israel was being bombed daily from Lebonese territory and the Lebonon Gvt. wasen't doing anything about it. This in itself is an act of war.
08-01-2006, 09:05 AM
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Does anyone remember the conflict between Lebanon and Israel in 2000? The Hezbollah seized 3 Israel Soldiers in a cross-border raid. The Israel soldiers died during the operation, but four years later, the Hezbollah were able to exchange their bodies for 430 Palestinians and Lebanese held in Israeli jails. Prisoner swap after four years (three dead Israelis for 430 live Palestinians and Hezbollah).
Maybe you see the response by Israel being lopsided. They remember the prisoner exchange in 2004. Their response is to avoid such lopsided exchanges in the future. I am not condoning the deaths of innocent people. In war the civilians are never the winners.
Any one heard of UN resolution 1559? This was adopted on September 2, 2004 (coming up on TWO YEARS ago) which, among other things, says the UN Security Council: Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias. The Secretary-General of the United Nations is Kofi Annan. Kofi Annan may well go down in history as the single most ineffective human being in the history of the Earth. The resolution has never been adopted even though it had a 30 day deadline for the plan to be enacted.
Now Zip forward to January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - when the Lebanon Daily Star reported the new president of the European Union was still calling for implementation of 1559:
"The European Union reiterates the importance it attaches to the Lebanese government extending its authority to the entire national territory and encourages it to continue the dialogue ? with a view to the disarmament of Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias."
Also in January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - the UN Security Council noted
"with concern the suggestion that there have been movements of arms and people into Lebanese territory and ? condemns the continued terrorist attacks in Lebanon, which have resulted in the death or injury of scores of Lebanese citizens ? as part of a deliberate strategy to destabilize the country and to intimidate the Lebanese people."
On July 12, 2006 the BBC had the headline describing the only possible result of the UN's inaction: Hezbollah Seizes Israel Soldiers.
This is not an islolated incident. This is an on going war against terror. Hezbollah has a game plan. Destablize the country and take over territory from Israel and Lebanon. They have little regard for life whether it be Lebanese or Israeli. Israel is defending itself against an aggressor. It is unfortuenate that the Hezbollah has not been dealt with by either the Lebanese government or UN intervention. Israel is doing what they do everytime no one intervenes. The Israelis commits troops to defend themselves. Again.
Maybe you see the response by Israel being lopsided. They remember the prisoner exchange in 2004. Their response is to avoid such lopsided exchanges in the future. I am not condoning the deaths of innocent people. In war the civilians are never the winners.
Any one heard of UN resolution 1559? This was adopted on September 2, 2004 (coming up on TWO YEARS ago) which, among other things, says the UN Security Council: Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias. The Secretary-General of the United Nations is Kofi Annan. Kofi Annan may well go down in history as the single most ineffective human being in the history of the Earth. The resolution has never been adopted even though it had a 30 day deadline for the plan to be enacted.
Now Zip forward to January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - when the Lebanon Daily Star reported the new president of the European Union was still calling for implementation of 1559:
"The European Union reiterates the importance it attaches to the Lebanese government extending its authority to the entire national territory and encourages it to continue the dialogue ? with a view to the disarmament of Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias."
Also in January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - the UN Security Council noted
"with concern the suggestion that there have been movements of arms and people into Lebanese territory and ? condemns the continued terrorist attacks in Lebanon, which have resulted in the death or injury of scores of Lebanese citizens ? as part of a deliberate strategy to destabilize the country and to intimidate the Lebanese people."
On July 12, 2006 the BBC had the headline describing the only possible result of the UN's inaction: Hezbollah Seizes Israel Soldiers.
This is not an islolated incident. This is an on going war against terror. Hezbollah has a game plan. Destablize the country and take over territory from Israel and Lebanon. They have little regard for life whether it be Lebanese or Israeli. Israel is defending itself against an aggressor. It is unfortuenate that the Hezbollah has not been dealt with by either the Lebanese government or UN intervention. Israel is doing what they do everytime no one intervenes. The Israelis commits troops to defend themselves. Again.
08-01-2006, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wnfield' post='317658' date='Aug 1 2006, 07:05 PM
Does anyone remember the conflict between Lebanon and Israel in 2000? The Hezbollah seized 3 Israel Soldiers in a cross-border raid. The Israel soldiers died during the operation, but four years later, the Hezbollah were able to exchange their bodies for 430 Palestinians and Lebanese held in Israeli jails. Prisoner swap after four years (three dead Israelis for 430 live Palestinians and Hezbollah).
Maybe you see the response by Israel being lopsided. They remember the prisoner exchange in 2004. Their response is to avoid such lopsided exchanges in the future. I am not condoning the deaths of innocent people. In war the civilians are never the winners.
Any one heard of UN resolution 1559? This was adopted on September 2, 2004 (coming up on TWO YEARS ago) which, among other things, says the UN Security Council: Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias. The Secretary-General of the United Nations is Kofi Annan. Kofi Annan may well go down in history as the single most ineffective human being in the history of the Earth. The resolution has never been adopted even though it had a 30 day deadline for the plan to be enacted.
Now Zip forward to January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - when the Lebanon Daily Star reported the new president of the European Union was still calling for implementation of 1559:
"The European Union reiterates the importance it attaches to the Lebanese government extending its authority to the entire national territory and encourages it to continue the dialogue ? with a view to the disarmament of Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias."
Also in January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - the UN Security Council noted
"with concern the suggestion that there have been movements of arms and people into Lebanese territory and ? condemns the continued terrorist attacks in Lebanon, which have resulted in the death or injury of scores of Lebanese citizens ? as part of a deliberate strategy to destabilize the country and to intimidate the Lebanese people."
On July 12, 2006 the BBC had the headline describing the only possible result of the UN's inaction: Hezbollah Seizes Israel Soldiers.
This is not an islolated incident. This is an on going war against terror. Hezbollah has a game plan. Destablize the country and take over territory from Israel and Lebanon. They have little regard for life whether it be Lebanese or Israeli. Israel is defending itself against an aggressor. It is unfortuenate that the Hezbollah has not been dealt with by either the Lebanese government or UN intervention. Israel is doing what they do everytime no one intervenes. The Israelis commits troops to defend themselves. Again.
Maybe you see the response by Israel being lopsided. They remember the prisoner exchange in 2004. Their response is to avoid such lopsided exchanges in the future. I am not condoning the deaths of innocent people. In war the civilians are never the winners.
Any one heard of UN resolution 1559? This was adopted on September 2, 2004 (coming up on TWO YEARS ago) which, among other things, says the UN Security Council: Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias. The Secretary-General of the United Nations is Kofi Annan. Kofi Annan may well go down in history as the single most ineffective human being in the history of the Earth. The resolution has never been adopted even though it had a 30 day deadline for the plan to be enacted.
Now Zip forward to January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - when the Lebanon Daily Star reported the new president of the European Union was still calling for implementation of 1559:
"The European Union reiterates the importance it attaches to the Lebanese government extending its authority to the entire national territory and encourages it to continue the dialogue ? with a view to the disarmament of Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias."
Also in January 2006 - SIXTEEN MONTHS later - the UN Security Council noted
"with concern the suggestion that there have been movements of arms and people into Lebanese territory and ? condemns the continued terrorist attacks in Lebanon, which have resulted in the death or injury of scores of Lebanese citizens ? as part of a deliberate strategy to destabilize the country and to intimidate the Lebanese people."
On July 12, 2006 the BBC had the headline describing the only possible result of the UN's inaction: Hezbollah Seizes Israel Soldiers.
This is not an islolated incident. This is an on going war against terror. Hezbollah has a game plan. Destablize the country and take over territory from Israel and Lebanon. They have little regard for life whether it be Lebanese or Israeli. Israel is defending itself against an aggressor. It is unfortuenate that the Hezbollah has not been dealt with by either the Lebanese government or UN intervention. Israel is doing what they do everytime no one intervenes. The Israelis commits troops to defend themselves. Again.
My thoughts on the above points find you in partial agreement.
The UN resolutions indirectly are targeted at Syria and Iran who are believed to be the internal engine of Hezbollah.
Whether we like it or not though, Hezbollah have 2 MP's democratically elected. Also Hamas has been democratically elected by it's people desperate for a solution.
Guess what? They are not "democratically" approved by western powers - Fair enough. It makes things more complicated.
But you're right, in this case even Saudi Arabia and Egypt were condemning Hezbollah actions which indicates even the heavyweights in the region are looking for a solution. But the regions' participants solutions and decisions should be the one's that dictate the regions fate. But I fear it's too late for this idealistic and naive path, even the Arab institutions are unable to react, let alone the UN.
This will result IMO in a new MiddleEast and Israel cannot fail to lose this fight. This is the reason for the ongoing military actions.
This will either lead to both sides softening up, calling a ceasefire, and pausing on the status-quo or Lebanon ending up in an open-ended situation where no-one wins and the region just drowns in it's own bloodbath.
08-01-2006, 12:36 PM
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I do not think there is any absolute right and wrong in what goes on in the Middle East. The conflicts are centuries old, and it is impossible to tell who is retaliating against what.
But, lets not forget some underlying facts. Hezbollah (an Hamas) both have the stated goal of destroying Israel. Can you imagine the United States allowing a group whose sworn goal is the destruction of the US to exist just across the border in Canada, and to send suicide bombers into the US or launch rockets into the US whenever it feels like it? What about a group sworn to the destruction of Germany located just across the border in Poland? If the UN is incabpable of disarming Hezbollah or otherwise ensuring Israel's safety, then Israel has the right to defend itself. While weapons are more sophistictaed now, war is not precise and there will be civillian casualities. If the government of Lebanon wanted to avoid this, they should have acted to disarm Hezbollah.
But, lets not forget some underlying facts. Hezbollah (an Hamas) both have the stated goal of destroying Israel. Can you imagine the United States allowing a group whose sworn goal is the destruction of the US to exist just across the border in Canada, and to send suicide bombers into the US or launch rockets into the US whenever it feels like it? What about a group sworn to the destruction of Germany located just across the border in Poland? If the UN is incabpable of disarming Hezbollah or otherwise ensuring Israel's safety, then Israel has the right to defend itself. While weapons are more sophistictaed now, war is not precise and there will be civillian casualities. If the government of Lebanon wanted to avoid this, they should have acted to disarm Hezbollah.
08-01-2006, 12:46 PM
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I agree with those that war solves shit, sorry admin last time I wrote w/o *.
But really so disgusting, I might be an idiot idalist but why people regardless of skin, religon, money cannot live in peace. So ridiculous, and innocent people die, muslims, christians, white and others...WHY?
I do not agree with the theory that if you are attacked you fight back...if you kill o guilty innocent people, same for Iraqu.
OT why we need to discuss politics here this can go too far even if admin is watching
So let's hope not, but do not forget we are all different, and our remarks, opinion might hurt others, but we are human beings...respect all.
Hell ya I am on NO dope
But really so disgusting, I might be an idiot idalist but why people regardless of skin, religon, money cannot live in peace. So ridiculous, and innocent people die, muslims, christians, white and others...WHY?
I do not agree with the theory that if you are attacked you fight back...if you kill o guilty innocent people, same for Iraqu.
OT why we need to discuss politics here this can go too far even if admin is watching
So let's hope not, but do not forget we are all different, and our remarks, opinion might hurt others, but we are human beings...respect all.
Hell ya I am on NO dope
08-01-2006, 12:51 PM
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I read this thread's title with some anxiety , thinking that there would be heaps of support for Israel .
BUT , further down the page , I'm delighted to see that many of you feel as I do . That Israel is making a big mistake.
Deliberately bombing the 4 UN workers in there compound, and now killing over 50 women and children - It's totally sub - human . They have to win the award as the most aggressive race on earth.
BUT , further down the page , I'm delighted to see that many of you feel as I do . That Israel is making a big mistake.
Deliberately bombing the 4 UN workers in there compound, and now killing over 50 women and children - It's totally sub - human . They have to win the award as the most aggressive race on earth.
08-01-2006, 01:01 PM
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Watch out guys, don't let this discussion become a problem for anyone here, OK?
"Sub-human" "most aggressive race on earth"...
Don't start this. Discussing politics is something we should avoid on a forum like this.
But because of the current situation some people want to express their minds, and as long as this not going too far I'd say we don't need to close it... for now...
But I am sure our admins Lomag and Das are watching thise thread very carefully...
"Sub-human" "most aggressive race on earth"...
Don't start this. Discussing politics is something we should avoid on a forum like this.
But because of the current situation some people want to express their minds, and as long as this not going too far I'd say we don't need to close it... for now...
But I am sure our admins Lomag and Das are watching thise thread very carefully...
08-01-2006, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ats77' post='317746' date='Aug 1 2006, 04:46 PM
I do not agree with the theory that if you are attacked you fight back...i
I simply cannot agree with this. If someone says they want to kill me, and then they really try to kill me, I will fight back.
08-01-2006, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by robg' post='317758' date='Aug 1 2006, 02:12 PM
I simply cannot agree with this. If someone says they want to kill me, and then they really try to kill me, I will fight back.
08-01-2006, 01:31 PM
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Let's just say that our thoughts and prayers are with those that are affected by this war and let's hope that this conflict will somehow come to an end somewhen soon.
best thing to say