M-ness is missing?
07-20-2010, 05:44 PM
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My Ride: 07' 550i sport; Sapphire Black/Auburn; sport package; steptronic; navigation with R.T.T.I.; heads up; cold weather package; Logic-7; BMW MOST ipod kit; Motorola V3 snap-in adapter; rear heated seats and rear shades; anthracite headliner; sirrius sat. radio; M-aero kit; OEM style 166 Wheels with 245/35-19 front and 285/30-19 rear Michelin PS2s.
Everyone has their car complaints, and we all remember some endearing quality we think modern cars have lost. I'm not hear to harp. Rather to answer a tough question: how would I call the shots as head of M GHMB:
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
07-20-2010, 11:21 PM
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I LOVE THIS CAR!!!
(WAAAAAYYYYY better than my previous MB E350, but quite a bit more expensive :( )
It's spelled "Lose".
That's my 2 cents
That's my 2 cents
07-22-2010, 10:06 AM
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Plus, shedding mass is a virtuous cycle ... a smaller engine could be used, and smaller brakes would be needed to haul less weight to a stop in the same amount of time, and suspension bits wouldn't need to be as massive, etc ...
But what I think is so amazing about BMW is that even tough they have chosen to go the other way for now (add weight and power), they still can engineer a vehicle with M-ness. Even the massive X5 M has been getting some fantastic reviews from very skeptical M fans ... and they reluctantly admit that those machines still fulfill the promise of M.
Recent news is hopeful too. Smaller engines are being talked about for the next M5 and M3. And the 1 series M coupe looks to be on the right path to traditional M goodness.
And one thing BMW clearly is doing more of these days is segmentation ... which may result in having both massive M machines such as the X5 M and lighter-weight track-capable warriors such as the M3 CSL and maybe the 1M.
Something for everyone. Works for me.
08-10-2010, 02:26 PM
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Everyone has their car complaints, and we all remember some endearing quality we think modern cars have lost. I'm not hear to harp. Rather to answer a tough question: how would I call the shots as head of M GHMB:
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
08-10-2010, 09:41 PM
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I just didnt like the fact that they put a forced induction engine in the M. I am sure after a few years, it'll go back to NA. Yes it's a red light monster but that's not what the M is all about. It's about a high revving ultimate driving machine not an ultimate drag racing machine. If I wanted a red light monster, it'll be a Mercedes or Audi.
08-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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Everyone has their car complaints, and we all remember some endearing quality we think modern cars have lost. I'm not hear to harp. Rather to answer a tough question: how would I call the shots as head of M GHMB:
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
There is one quality that I would change. With M cars, you are always getting more. More power, more brakes, more rubber, more curb weight... I think Ms should incorporate weight savings that are nearly impossible to retrofit. The carbon roof is a great example, but lets take it further. Lets delete some useless junk. Soft close doors!? 20 way seats, electronic boot lid openers. Less is more. Porsche's lightest and most stripped down models are also its most expensive! Lets have thinner glass, carbon composite panels, lightweight batteries, normal stereos without 9 amplifiers. And forget the damned multi setting suspension. Multi mode shocks - EDC - fine. But no hydraulic anti roll. Give me thick roll bars and that's it. I want to feel the road.
I think that M3, M5 M6 and definitely X5/6M are simply more powerful versions of their luxury counterparts. They don't loose weight and features, they just get bigger engines, brakes and wheels. Now with the new M5 sharing the X5/6 engine, it makes me more concerned the M5 will be too good - like at the expense of some character...
So, that's my 2 cents.
Less would be more.
DRP
Suppose I rename the 1 series the 3, the 3 series the 5, the 5 series the 7, and make the current 7's something new, like an 8?
So tell me how the current 1's compare to the 2002's and the very early 3's? Size is comparable, performance is way over the top now. How will the M1 compare to the first M3?
Same thing with the current 3's and the very early 5's. Size is about the same and the performance is much much better.
It gets even better when you get to the F10's. Everyone is complaining about the extra 400 or so pounds in the F10's, but a good bit of that is in the steel chassis that's over 50% stiffer than the E60. The V10 of the E60 M5 is heavier than the TT V8 going into the new M5 and because of the new chassis there are many more opportunities for the use of carbon fiber to further reduce weight. That stiffer chassis supports a significantly improved suspension (SLA in the front) and an engine/drivetrain that could hit 600hp. Do you know how many cars there are that hit 600hp?
So my 2 cents is that you've already got everything you want, and more.
Sometimes more is better.
08-10-2010, 11:55 PM
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are the current gen ///m engines low revving? i think the m5 will still have a high revving engine with the advantage of a turbo, no?
08-11-2010, 09:41 AM
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if by current you mean the "new" \\\m engine in the trucks, then they are lower revving than historically for an M. same for the next m5, same engine (N63 which became the S63 which may be further tweaked for the M5/M6) so it will not rev past perhaps 6500-7000RPMs as shown in recent interior photos of the new Tach, though max power and torque will come on much lower and peak well below the 6500 levelm 
10-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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My Ride: 07' 550i sport; Sapphire Black/Auburn; sport package; steptronic; navigation with R.T.T.I.; heads up; cold weather package; Logic-7; BMW MOST ipod kit; Motorola V3 snap-in adapter; rear heated seats and rear shades; anthracite headliner; sirrius sat. radio; M-aero kit; OEM style 166 Wheels with 245/35-19 front and 285/30-19 rear Michelin PS2s.
couldn't resist the I told you so...
I started this thread 2 years ago and now that the M5 is out, the verdict was easily and accurately predicted. bigger, heavier, faster and - less rewarding to steer than its predecessor.
What's interesting is that BMWs direction has opened a gap in the market. The quattroporte and panamera fill some of it, but I think ironically its AMG that has now taken the realestate formerly reserved for M5 die hards - that of the best driver's car in the midside sedan segment.
Before you can improve the M5, you need to improve the 5. Not to flame, its a great luxury car. I would just like to see it return to a sports sedan...
DRP
What's interesting is that BMWs direction has opened a gap in the market. The quattroporte and panamera fill some of it, but I think ironically its AMG that has now taken the realestate formerly reserved for M5 die hards - that of the best driver's car in the midside sedan segment.
Before you can improve the M5, you need to improve the 5. Not to flame, its a great luxury car. I would just like to see it return to a sports sedan...
DRP
10-08-2012, 08:43 AM
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Unfortunately, I don't think the guys from Bavaria are going to go back to the Thoroughbred engines... Times are changing and with gas as high as the equivalent of $10 a gallon in Europe, I think we are going to see the Turbocharged Trifecta (Dual Vanos, Twin Scroll, Direct injection) for many more years to come... I can only hope that BMW partners with Lamborghini again and puts an E60 V10 in a true supercar, a brand new ///M1!! Lambo has stayed true to the high revving, NA engines and if there was going to be another true ///M car, I think they would be the ones to do it!