The F10 5 Series IS your daddy's 7 Series
09-30-2010, 10:35 AM
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Just thought it would be fun to see how our beloved 5 series has evolved from a sports sedan to a luxury cruiser...
Many believe the F10 is the reincarnation of the E39, but that couldnt be further from the truth.
E39 2002 540i
Wheelbase 2830 mm 111.4 in
Track front 1516 mm 59.7 in
rear 1530 mm 60.2 in
Length 4775 mm 188 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1705 kg 3759 lb
E60 2005 550i
Wheelbase 2888 mm 113.7 in
Track front 1558 mm 61.3 in
rear 1582 mm 62.3 in
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
Height 1468 mm 57.8 in
Kerb weight 1735 kg 3825 lb
F10 2011 550i
Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9
Track front 1600 mm 63.0in
rear 1627 mm 64.1in
Length 193.1in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
Height 1464 mm 57.6in
Kerb weight 4376lbs
In looking at the numbers, the E39 to E60 was a rather smooth transition to a larger class vehicle, but at the same time, retained its weight with minimal gains (66lb increase) due to the larger dimensions.
But, when we look at the E60 to F10, the numbers show a stark contrast for a car in the same class/segment...More than 3inches in wheelbase, more than 550lbs heavier!
And in the phantom comparisons of the E39 to F10, where some propose that those that loved the E39 will flock to the F10 now because of the less controversial design elements, those E39 folks will be in for a real shock when they get behind the wheel...the F10 is 5.5 inches longer in wheelbase, and 617 more pounds! I would like to hear from anyone that has an E39 that drove the F10 back to back to get their feelings on this increase in mass.
Now, in looking back in time, 1998, the E38 7er:
E38 '98 740i
Wheelbase 2930 mm 115.4 in
Track front 1552 mm 61.1 in
rear 1568 mm 61.7 in
Length 4984 mm 196.2 in
Width 1862 mm 73.3 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1885 kg 4156 lb
So, the F10 has a longer wheelbase and weighs 220lbs more that a 7er just 10 years removed!
And even comparing to the E65:
E65 2001 745i
Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in
Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198.0 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in
Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb
Just 0.8 of an inch differentiates the F10 from the E65 in wheelbase, and still, the F10 weighs 98 lbs more!
So, while no one argues or would argue that the F10 is a refined luxury sedan, it has grown to proportions that take it out of its own class size, and ultimately has killed the notion that the 5 series is a Sports saloon, its a full size luxury vehicle with lots of power, and it certainly is BIGGER than your Daddy's 7 Series.
So whats left for a 4 door Sports saloon from BMW??? Leaving out the Gran Coupe since it will be big for sure, (perhaps bigger than F10) that only leaves one model...Looking at the current E90 which has grown as well over the past decade, one can deduce that the F30 will grow approx to the exact size dimensions as the former E39 5 series, just add a couple of inches to the wheelbase and about 200lbs, and its a near match...
2010 E90 335i
Wheelbase 2760 mm 108.7 in
Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1529 mm 60.2 in
Length 4531 mm 178.4 in
Width 1817 mm 71.5 in
Height 1421 mm 55.9 in
Kerb weight 1625 kg 3583 lb
And the sad news about the F30 is that supposedly M has already decided NOT to make a 4door M3 due to the low sales of the E90 M3 (guess they didnt hear about our members support!), so there may not be any future agile, 4door, sports saloon available from M :thumbsdown:
***note to Pete, there is no point to this thread, just sharing facts
Many believe the F10 is the reincarnation of the E39, but that couldnt be further from the truth.
E39 2002 540i
Wheelbase 2830 mm 111.4 in
Track front 1516 mm 59.7 in
rear 1530 mm 60.2 in
Length 4775 mm 188 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1705 kg 3759 lb
E60 2005 550i
Wheelbase 2888 mm 113.7 in
Track front 1558 mm 61.3 in
rear 1582 mm 62.3 in
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
Height 1468 mm 57.8 in
Kerb weight 1735 kg 3825 lb
F10 2011 550i
Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9
Track front 1600 mm 63.0in
rear 1627 mm 64.1in
Length 193.1in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
Height 1464 mm 57.6in
Kerb weight 4376lbs
In looking at the numbers, the E39 to E60 was a rather smooth transition to a larger class vehicle, but at the same time, retained its weight with minimal gains (66lb increase) due to the larger dimensions.
But, when we look at the E60 to F10, the numbers show a stark contrast for a car in the same class/segment...More than 3inches in wheelbase, more than 550lbs heavier!
And in the phantom comparisons of the E39 to F10, where some propose that those that loved the E39 will flock to the F10 now because of the less controversial design elements, those E39 folks will be in for a real shock when they get behind the wheel...the F10 is 5.5 inches longer in wheelbase, and 617 more pounds! I would like to hear from anyone that has an E39 that drove the F10 back to back to get their feelings on this increase in mass.
Now, in looking back in time, 1998, the E38 7er:
E38 '98 740i
Wheelbase 2930 mm 115.4 in
Track front 1552 mm 61.1 in
rear 1568 mm 61.7 in
Length 4984 mm 196.2 in
Width 1862 mm 73.3 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in
Kerb weight 1885 kg 4156 lb
So, the F10 has a longer wheelbase and weighs 220lbs more that a 7er just 10 years removed!
And even comparing to the E65:
E65 2001 745i
Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in
Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198.0 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in
Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb
Just 0.8 of an inch differentiates the F10 from the E65 in wheelbase, and still, the F10 weighs 98 lbs more!
So, while no one argues or would argue that the F10 is a refined luxury sedan, it has grown to proportions that take it out of its own class size, and ultimately has killed the notion that the 5 series is a Sports saloon, its a full size luxury vehicle with lots of power, and it certainly is BIGGER than your Daddy's 7 Series.
So whats left for a 4 door Sports saloon from BMW??? Leaving out the Gran Coupe since it will be big for sure, (perhaps bigger than F10) that only leaves one model...Looking at the current E90 which has grown as well over the past decade, one can deduce that the F30 will grow approx to the exact size dimensions as the former E39 5 series, just add a couple of inches to the wheelbase and about 200lbs, and its a near match...
2010 E90 335i
Wheelbase 2760 mm 108.7 in
Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1529 mm 60.2 in
Length 4531 mm 178.4 in
Width 1817 mm 71.5 in
Height 1421 mm 55.9 in
Kerb weight 1625 kg 3583 lb
And the sad news about the F30 is that supposedly M has already decided NOT to make a 4door M3 due to the low sales of the E90 M3 (guess they didnt hear about our members support!), so there may not be any future agile, 4door, sports saloon available from M :thumbsdown:
***note to Pete, there is no point to this thread, just sharing facts
09-30-2010, 11:11 AM
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I like the disclaimer at the end of your post... I clicked on your thread expecting to see Pete all heated already.
You're being pretty objective about the weight. I seriously have no idea why BMW felt that such a large weight increase was justified. I understand the larger size and all the electro-goodies but this this nuts. If they were able to have such a minimal weight increase from the e39 - e60 transition they should have been able to do the same from the e60 - f10. I'm holding on to my e60 for a good while.
You're being pretty objective about the weight. I seriously have no idea why BMW felt that such a large weight increase was justified. I understand the larger size and all the electro-goodies but this this nuts. If they were able to have such a minimal weight increase from the e39 - e60 transition they should have been able to do the same from the e60 - f10. I'm holding on to my e60 for a good while.
09-30-2010, 11:53 AM
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I did a similar exercise some months ago, went back a bit further than you did, if you're going to compare the F10 to anything (at least dimensionally) then you have to include the E32. The F10 is still a bit over a hundred pounds heavier, but dimensions don't always equal geometry.
BMW pushed the stiffer chassis during introduction, no one has seemed to give this any credit. Front suspension changed, rear significantly updated, not to mention that an F10 535i has the same HP and more Torque than the top of the line V12 E32. I agree that there is more than a little truth to the thread's topic, but it really should be something along the lines of 'The F10 5 Series is what your daddy wanted in a 7 Series.
BMW pushed the stiffer chassis during introduction, no one has seemed to give this any credit. Front suspension changed, rear significantly updated, not to mention that an F10 535i has the same HP and more Torque than the top of the line V12 E32. I agree that there is more than a little truth to the thread's topic, but it really should be something along the lines of 'The F10 5 Series is what your daddy wanted in a 7 Series.
09-30-2010, 01:34 PM
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My Ride: 2011 BMW 550i; Dark Graphite Metalliic/Oyster, 4.4 TT V8, 8-sp AT, Sports Package, Dynamic Handling, Premium Package 2, Cold Weather Package, HUD
RED ALERT!!
RED ALERT!!
FLAME BAIT!! FLAME BAIT!!
All kidding aside, though, let's just say I respectfully disagree somewhat with the above OP's statement.
Just what is the definition of sports sedan? Is there a weight cut-off? Length cut-off? Performance cut-off? Whose standard?.......It's all subjective.
Yes, there's no denying the 5 series is bigger and heavier than it's ever been. But at the same time, it has more features, more amenities, more luxurious, more room and is safer than it ever was. Not only that, as C&D confirmed, it's the fastest 5 series (550i) yet as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile. (not including the M5 of course). And from my personal experience, the car handles and tackles curves like it's on rails. For me, the F10 is a sports sedan in every sense of the word....with a good helping of luxury thrown in.
RED ALERT!!
FLAME BAIT!! FLAME BAIT!!
All kidding aside, though, let's just say I respectfully disagree somewhat with the above OP's statement.
Just what is the definition of sports sedan? Is there a weight cut-off? Length cut-off? Performance cut-off? Whose standard?.......It's all subjective.
Yes, there's no denying the 5 series is bigger and heavier than it's ever been. But at the same time, it has more features, more amenities, more luxurious, more room and is safer than it ever was. Not only that, as C&D confirmed, it's the fastest 5 series (550i) yet as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile. (not including the M5 of course). And from my personal experience, the car handles and tackles curves like it's on rails. For me, the F10 is a sports sedan in every sense of the word....with a good helping of luxury thrown in.
09-30-2010, 01:43 PM
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While I can agree with everything you said, point is in 2 years we will all have FXX models. Regardless, do you think anyone here will have the old outdated car in 2 years?
09-30-2010, 01:44 PM
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09-30-2010, 01:53 PM
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