Originally Posted by swajames

All true and all good points. That said, had C&D given the F10 the win, these are all points that one would have been happy to overlook. Also, you're perhaps not giving the long standing members here quite enough credit. There has been a lot of discussion in the five and a half years that I've been a member that BMW was starting to lose its edge and that the differentiation it prided itself on - trying to live up to its "ultimate driving machine" tagline - was starting to get lost in a race for the bottom in the quest for sales. Cars such as the X6, the 550 GT, the X3 and the 1 Series do relatively little to enhance BMW's reputation and the feedback from C&D, which is after all the magazine that's had the 3 Series in its 10 Best cars for 19 years running and which is routinely accused of having the most obvious pro-BMW bias, is simply the latest in a trend that suggests BMW is losing something that more buyers than you think hold dear. I don't doubt for a second that there are buyers who own a BMW due to the badge nor that these customers make up a significant proportion of sales, some manufacturers such as BMW and Porsche have always had a bigger enthusiast core in its customer base than most. It's these customers who feel the F10 lost something by being more of a smaller seven series, adding weight in the process, and personally I think it's interesting to note that it seems to be Audi which is starting to look like the brand that is focusing more on the driver than the passenger. I admit a bias as I am a current owner but Porsche's new Cayenne will tip the scales at up to 400lbs less than the previous model, whereas BMW is adding weight across the board. Both cars are equally impacted by the new EU pedestrian regulations. It's simply a question of focus. BMW is starting to look like it is dining out on past glories with the added mass in its current line up. BMW makes some wonderful cars, but it has taken its eye off the ball.

Originally Posted by MitchBMW

" I think it's interesting to note that it seems to be Audi which is starting to look like the brand that is focusing more on the driver than the passenger."

Funny, my wife and I were talking about this last week. :-)

Originally Posted by sdg1871

Yes it does seem that Audi is trying to become the new BMW. Audis are doing really well in fun to drive/handling ratings of late. Hmmm. I won't buy a car with piggish, disconnected handling.

Originally Posted by MitchBMW

Everyone has their opinion on the E60 vs F10, and it seems the people who have purchased an F10 will say that it's better than the E60. And there are people who will say that the E60 is better in some ways... but for me personaly, I have no plans on buying an F10. I don't like the way it looks AT ALL. And looks are subjective. Just because something is newer doesn't make it automatically better. I personally think an STOCK E60 545 - 550 looks way better than a Stock F10 535, or 550. I saw a couple at the dealer yesterday and it did absolutely nothing for me. And for the guy that said that the better than the E60 in EVERYWAY, including looks.. well again, everyone has their opinion. BMW has seemingly gone down a road that some of the other car makers have gone... they are getting away from what they are known for.

I'm sure the car is great... but it looks huge compared to my E60, and I just think it's ugly. Can't see spending $60k plus on a car and then have to buy parts to put on it just to make it look decent. :-)

Just my .02

Originally Posted by Petes550i

This is the same talk I've heard 6 years ago when I bought my 545i. Actually, it was a 100X worse.....I even received personal death threats from some deranged Roadfly members! Ah, the nostalgia! Don't worry guys, you'll eventually be assimilated...resistance is futile!

Originally Posted by swajames

All true and all good points. That said, had C&D given the F10 the win, these are all points that one would have been happy to overlook. Also, you're perhaps not giving the long standing members here quite enough credit. There has been a lot of discussion in the five and a half years that I've been a member that BMW was starting to lose its edge and that the differentiation it prided itself on - trying to live up to its "ultimate driving machine" tagline - was starting to get lost in a race for the bottom in the quest for sales. Cars such as the X6, the 550 GT, the X3 and the 1 Series do relatively little to enhance BMW's reputation and the feedback from C&D, which is after all the magazine that's had the 3 Series in its 10 Best cars for 19 years running and which is routinely accused of having the most obvious pro-BMW bias, is simply the latest in a trend that suggests BMW is losing something that more buyers than you think hold dear. I don't doubt for a second that there are buyers who own a BMW due to the badge nor that these customers make up a significant proportion of sales, some manufacturers such as BMW and Porsche have always had a bigger enthusiast core in its customer base than most. It's these customers who feel the F10 lost something by being more of a smaller seven series, adding weight in the process, and personally I think it's interesting to note that it seems to be Audi which is starting to look like the brand that is focusing more on the driver than the passenger. I admit a bias as I am a current owner but Porsche's new Cayenne will tip the scales at up to 400lbs less than the previous model, whereas BMW is adding weight across the board. Both cars are equally impacted by the new EU pedestrian regulations. It's simply a question of focus. BMW is starting to look like it is dining out on past glories with the added mass in its current line up. BMW makes some wonderful cars, but it has taken its eye off the ball.

Originally Posted by SSRL_2006

Couldn't have put it any better!

And for the other member who suggested that I shouldn't buy one then - I am not, even the F10 M5 I will avoid! Said this numerous times but I will be now waiting for the new 6 Series (particularly the M6) to "WOW" me again as BMW did with the E60 when I first saw it back in 2004!