90k Trans Fluid Change?
10-08-2013, 11:06 AM
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90k Trans Fluid Change?
Hello all, I have a question about my automatic transmission fluid.
I am closing in on 90k miles with the original automatic transmission fluid on a 2006 530xit. Perfect shifts, no slips or hesitation, and I would like to keep it healthy for as long as possible.
I know the "lifetime" fill business has been discussed at length and I have read all relevant posts, but between my mileage, indie shop suggestions, and posts here, I still am not sure if I should change the fluid or wait for failure.
My indie shop and a few threads around here have said that beyond 80/90k miles, changing the fluid is asking for trouble. Is that the consensus? Has anyone changed the fluid with mileage like this?
The transmission works perfectly now and I would hate to make it worse in the process of trying to make it last longer. I appreciate any thoughts, experience, suggestions. Thank you.
I am closing in on 90k miles with the original automatic transmission fluid on a 2006 530xit. Perfect shifts, no slips or hesitation, and I would like to keep it healthy for as long as possible.
I know the "lifetime" fill business has been discussed at length and I have read all relevant posts, but between my mileage, indie shop suggestions, and posts here, I still am not sure if I should change the fluid or wait for failure.
My indie shop and a few threads around here have said that beyond 80/90k miles, changing the fluid is asking for trouble. Is that the consensus? Has anyone changed the fluid with mileage like this?
The transmission works perfectly now and I would hate to make it worse in the process of trying to make it last longer. I appreciate any thoughts, experience, suggestions. Thank you.
10-08-2013, 03:42 PM
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No, not consensus. My guess is that at least a significant part of troubles are due to not using the appropriate change procedure.
I know it doesn't prove anything but of the four bimmers we currently have I've changed ATF (plus filter/pan) on two so far (the others aren't due yet) - one at 80k and one at 100k. No problem, just silky smooth riding. But then again I'm very careful to refill according to the procedure. To read the temp I use INPA. If the fluid gets too hot (near 50C) during filling better put fill plug back, turn off car, let it cool down to 30C, and then start again ..
I know it doesn't prove anything but of the four bimmers we currently have I've changed ATF (plus filter/pan) on two so far (the others aren't due yet) - one at 80k and one at 100k. No problem, just silky smooth riding. But then again I'm very careful to refill according to the procedure. To read the temp I use INPA. If the fluid gets too hot (near 50C) during filling better put fill plug back, turn off car, let it cool down to 30C, and then start again ..
10-09-2013, 01:31 PM
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Thank you, blueswede.
When you changed the ATF at 80k and 100k, was the fluid in good condition or dirty? How as the shifting prior to the change?
The indie shop I use mentioned the refill procedure so hopefully if I do change it, they will follow it to the letter.
When you changed the ATF at 80k and 100k, was the fluid in good condition or dirty? How as the shifting prior to the change?
The indie shop I use mentioned the refill procedure so hopefully if I do change it, they will follow it to the letter.
10-09-2013, 02:52 PM
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Fluid really dirty. Also pan dirty and plenty of metal gunk on the magnets. Didn't cut filter open so no idea of condition. Can't say ride wise it made a huge difference, they both ran smooth also before change. But lots of peace of mind.
Note, just for the record, I do "pan-down-change" (~55% fluid changed), opposed to flush (100% fluid change) and "drain-plug-change" (~35% fluid, not addressing the filter).
Also recommend to do the rear diff fluid change when you're at it. That's an easy peasy 10 mins job having car already elevated. (different fluid tho)
Note, just for the record, I do "pan-down-change" (~55% fluid changed), opposed to flush (100% fluid change) and "drain-plug-change" (~35% fluid, not addressing the filter).
Also recommend to do the rear diff fluid change when you're at it. That's an easy peasy 10 mins job having car already elevated. (different fluid tho)
10-09-2013, 03:57 PM
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Is there an advantage to only changing half the fluid?
My indie shop claimed the fluid was clean when they took a sample but they are also skeptical about flushing the ATF (or even a 55% change). I have a hard time believe that 88k miles later the fluid is still OK. I'll go with a full flush and make sure they use the proper refill method. That will give me peace of mind (especially since I take this car across the country almost annually).
Good point about the rear diff- I'll make a point of changing that as well. At least one part of the drivetrain is easily serviceable.
I see you are in Sweden. I am about to go through the same song and dance with my Volvo dealer on an XC90. Sealed "lifetime" fluids seem to be very popular these days.
My indie shop claimed the fluid was clean when they took a sample but they are also skeptical about flushing the ATF (or even a 55% change). I have a hard time believe that 88k miles later the fluid is still OK. I'll go with a full flush and make sure they use the proper refill method. That will give me peace of mind (especially since I take this car across the country almost annually).
Good point about the rear diff- I'll make a point of changing that as well. At least one part of the drivetrain is easily serviceable.
I see you are in Sweden. I am about to go through the same song and dance with my Volvo dealer on an XC90. Sealed "lifetime" fluids seem to be very popular these days.
10-10-2013, 04:21 PM
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Similar to the rumors that says any fluid change would be asking for troubles some variations says that only a full flush should be avoided. It all relates to the theory that built up sludge and gunk in the tranny from years of use suddenly gets released by the new fluid. (all modern automotive oil, also tranny oil, has plenty of chemical additives; some of them are detergents and dispersants, aka "cleaners", that are more effective in a newly changed fluid than in an old used). So, the theory is, if you somewhat dilute the new fluid with the old you won't get as effective, immediate, cleaning (causing the tranny into trouble).
Again, these are the theories and/or rumors. I myself don't think a full flush would harm (note tho, this is just an educated guess; I am a mechanical engineer but not an auto mechanic by trade and I have never disassambled a used tranny). The reason I don't do full flush is merely a practical reason; a full flush requires you to also empty the torque converter which for me is too complicated - need either a vacuum pump (which I don't have) or three people (I'm usually alone when working on our cars).
Because of the above a quite popular practice is to first do a "pan-down" change, then after some time (usually 1-2k miles) do a drain-plug change and then after another 1-2k miles do another drain-plug change. This way you have sort of "staged in" almost 90% new fluid. But then again some others say you should do it vice versa, ie start with two drain-plug changes (and let the cleaners kick in still using the old filter) then do the pan-down change (with the new filter).
I'm sure there are other variations. You know you opened pandoras box asking
Yes from Stockholm. We used to have an xc70 but never really liked it (my first volvo was a 164, then later 245, 745, 945, all much better cars than the xc70). I'm not a hardcore fan of bmw either, especially models from 2007 and newer, but nowadays we stick to that brand, merely for practical reasons. Have all the software and most of the hardware to service and maintain them. It's hard enough anyway with just one brand.
Again, these are the theories and/or rumors. I myself don't think a full flush would harm (note tho, this is just an educated guess; I am a mechanical engineer but not an auto mechanic by trade and I have never disassambled a used tranny). The reason I don't do full flush is merely a practical reason; a full flush requires you to also empty the torque converter which for me is too complicated - need either a vacuum pump (which I don't have) or three people (I'm usually alone when working on our cars).
Because of the above a quite popular practice is to first do a "pan-down" change, then after some time (usually 1-2k miles) do a drain-plug change and then after another 1-2k miles do another drain-plug change. This way you have sort of "staged in" almost 90% new fluid. But then again some others say you should do it vice versa, ie start with two drain-plug changes (and let the cleaners kick in still using the old filter) then do the pan-down change (with the new filter).
I'm sure there are other variations. You know you opened pandoras box asking
Yes from Stockholm. We used to have an xc70 but never really liked it (my first volvo was a 164, then later 245, 745, 945, all much better cars than the xc70). I'm not a hardcore fan of bmw either, especially models from 2007 and newer, but nowadays we stick to that brand, merely for practical reasons. Have all the software and most of the hardware to service and maintain them. It's hard enough anyway with just one brand.
10-17-2013, 09:05 PM
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Thank you very much, blueswede. I appreciate your help and advice. Oh yes, a Pandora's box indeed. I am happy to learn more about the different modes of thought on the matter. I had forgotten about the "staged in" method. It seems to be what my independent garage suggested but sounded excessive to me, but maybe on second thought it isn't.
Thanks for your reply, too, vladvm. Supposedly my 88k mile fluid was clean, so perhaps I can go a little further before getting into Pandora's Box with my mechanic.
I am so very tempted just to flush the whole darn thing, torque converter and all. I assume that during all this flushing, the rear differential should be done as well. Is there a complicated procedure for that as well?
Am I correct in thinking that if a full flush does release sludge, the only fix is to replace the transmission?
I entertain the idea of learning to work on my cars, but I had no idea a transmission could be transformed into such a complicated device. Well, the transmission and the two weeks it took the dealer to program a new battery to the car after the ground cable recall (they claimed the iPod interface was the problem).
I was in Stockholm several years ago and enjoyed the city immensely. What year XC70? Pasadena, California has a large number of mint (and not so mint) condition 240 wagons, which I always enjoy seeing. I am not a hardcore BMW fan either, but I do like my 530 very much (hence my transmission longevity concerns.)
Thanks for your reply, too, vladvm. Supposedly my 88k mile fluid was clean, so perhaps I can go a little further before getting into Pandora's Box with my mechanic.
I am so very tempted just to flush the whole darn thing, torque converter and all. I assume that during all this flushing, the rear differential should be done as well. Is there a complicated procedure for that as well?
Am I correct in thinking that if a full flush does release sludge, the only fix is to replace the transmission?
I entertain the idea of learning to work on my cars, but I had no idea a transmission could be transformed into such a complicated device. Well, the transmission and the two weeks it took the dealer to program a new battery to the car after the ground cable recall (they claimed the iPod interface was the problem).
I was in Stockholm several years ago and enjoyed the city immensely. What year XC70? Pasadena, California has a large number of mint (and not so mint) condition 240 wagons, which I always enjoy seeing. I am not a hardcore BMW fan either, but I do like my 530 very much (hence my transmission longevity concerns.)
10-22-2013, 10:26 PM
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I took the car in today and spoke at length with the advisers. All fluids will be flushed except for the coolant, which will get a PH test to make sure it is still good in an effort to keep the water pump happy.
Of all the fluids iDrive monitors, the brake fluid replacement date was spot on (unlike the oil "suggestion").
Of all the fluids iDrive monitors, the brake fluid replacement date was spot on (unlike the oil "suggestion").
10-23-2013, 07:26 AM
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Way to go! (imho)
Btw, noticed you have xdrive so guess you will be replacing both the rear and the front differential fluid. Again, not at all complicated.
Re coolant flush there are of course various opinions .. here's one recent thread https://5series.net/forums/e60-discu...decide-134519/ If the coolant's anti corrosion additive wears out in two, three, five or ten years I don't know, I guess YMMV. But, in case you go ahead with a coolant flush too, since you have the n52 engine you also have the dreaded electrical water pump. But at least that should make the coolant bleed procedure much easier.
The xc70 was a 2004. Think we sold it 2008. Every year we had to repair something; wheel bearings, control arms, bushings, things that used to last close to life time. So anyway, for the time being no more volvos for us. Sorry to say but to me it seemed like some time after ford took over volvo cars things just went downhill quality wise. (since then ford has sold volvo cars to geely (chinese) - go figure
Re bmw brand, you have one of the last naturally aspirated great engines - nurture it and keep it close to your heart. Imo, the future doesn't look too bright with the eco-alarmist mafia pushing the agenda (run by polititians and economists).
Sry for the rant. Have a good one.
Btw, noticed you have xdrive so guess you will be replacing both the rear and the front differential fluid. Again, not at all complicated.
Re coolant flush there are of course various opinions .. here's one recent thread https://5series.net/forums/e60-discu...decide-134519/ If the coolant's anti corrosion additive wears out in two, three, five or ten years I don't know, I guess YMMV. But, in case you go ahead with a coolant flush too, since you have the n52 engine you also have the dreaded electrical water pump. But at least that should make the coolant bleed procedure much easier.
The xc70 was a 2004. Think we sold it 2008. Every year we had to repair something; wheel bearings, control arms, bushings, things that used to last close to life time. So anyway, for the time being no more volvos for us. Sorry to say but to me it seemed like some time after ford took over volvo cars things just went downhill quality wise. (since then ford has sold volvo cars to geely (chinese) - go figure
Re bmw brand, you have one of the last naturally aspirated great engines - nurture it and keep it close to your heart. Imo, the future doesn't look too bright with the eco-alarmist mafia pushing the agenda (run by polititians and economists).
Sry for the rant. Have a good one.