535i Dual Cone Intake
06-05-2008, 09:58 AM
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If you are considering an Air Intake Mod, I'd like to share with you fellow 535i owners a DIY for Dual Cone Intake. You only need 2 filters and a coupler to do this Mod. A very simple mod IMHO. Here's the link:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71
If you're lazy then you can buy it from Vishnu for $195:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147399
or from BMS for $119:
http://burgertuning.com/products.html
This is the first CAI produced for the N54 (still test fitting for the 535i):
http://www.ultimate-racing.com/Products2/B...35i_S_CAI.shtml
I might do the DIY when i have some free time and post my results and review. Let me know your .02cents.
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71
If you're lazy then you can buy it from Vishnu for $195:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147399
or from BMS for $119:
http://burgertuning.com/products.html
This is the first CAI produced for the N54 (still test fitting for the 535i):
http://www.ultimate-racing.com/Products2/B...35i_S_CAI.shtml
I might do the DIY when i have some free time and post my results and review. Let me know your .02cents.
06-05-2008, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MacFly' post='596309' date='Jun 5 2008, 11:24 AM
john.....i'd be nice to see your work at the BBQ. 
06-05-2008, 07:19 PM
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Looking at the pic of the Vishnu set up. That set up might give some power until the motor gets up to operating temperature, and the engine bay heats up, but after that (5 minutes or so), you could lose as much as 10% or so. I've experimented with open air-boxes on bikes, because if it's not using ram-air, you can get power from pulling in more air (as long as you can add fuel). Problem is, once this air gets heated, you start losing power in large amounts, and quickly. The hotter it gets, the more you lose. This set up might be good if you're running the car on a dyno with the hood open, and a fan blowing at the engine compartment. Kinda like a cheater way to show good power, but in the real world with your hood closed, you're gonna pay.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1
). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1
). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.
06-05-2008, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fastkevin' post='596687' date='Jun 5 2008, 08:19 PM
Looking at the pic of the Vishnu set up. That set up might give some power until the motor gets up to operating temperature, and the engine bay heats up, but after that (5 minutes or so), you could lose as much as 10% or so. I've experimented with open air-boxes on bikes, because if it's not using ram-air, you can get power from pulling in more air (as long as you can add fuel). Problem is, once this air gets heated, you start losing power in large amounts, and quickly. The hotter it gets, the more you lose. This set up might be good if you're running the car on a dyno with the hood open, and a fan blowing at the engine compartment. Kinda like a cheater way to show good power, but in the real world with your hood closed, you're gonna pay.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1 ). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1
). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.
06-05-2008, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fastkevin' post='596687' date='Jun 5 2008, 08:19 PM
Looking at the pic of the Vishnu set up. That set up might give some power until the motor gets up to operating temperature, and the engine bay heats up, but after that (5 minutes or so), you could lose as much as 10% or so. I've experimented with open air-boxes on bikes, because if it's not using ram-air, you can get power from pulling in more air (as long as you can add fuel). Problem is, once this air gets heated, you start losing power in large amounts, and quickly. The hotter it gets, the more you lose. This set up might be good if you're running the car on a dyno with the hood open, and a fan blowing at the engine compartment. Kinda like a cheater way to show good power, but in the real world with your hood closed, you're gonna pay.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1 ). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.
It's the whole reason why you see countless "Cold Air Intakes" on the market for every friggen car. Cold air (and fuel) is good for producing power. You'll also see huge snorkels on race cars like in F-1 (and also fuel coolers. WHOOPS! that's illegal in F-1
). Their job is to bring in outside (cooler) air, instead of pulling the heated air from the engine compartment. Not sure, but they might be using ram-air, but the result is the same. Cool air good. Hot air really bad.It is more about increasing airflow, rather than lowering air temps.
Have you seen the 1000hp supras with the open air intakes.
06-05-2008, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jcool10181' post='596727' date='Jun 6 2008, 12:40 AM
If you've read Shiv's post, he explained the logic behind having these dual cone filters and its benefits on a twin turbo engine. I understand and agree with you completely no doubt but i still think this mod will give a good performance boost over stock air box on daily spirited driving. I'm no racer so I don't worry about hot air and losing power because those apply on track cars that push their cars to the limit on extended amount of time (like your F-1 example). I punch my car at WOT only when i have a chance on open roads on highways.
As far as comparing the performance aspect from street to track, IMO, they're one in the same. Power and efficiency is the same, no matter where or how you drive.
At the end of the day though, it'd be up to the individual consumer. If you have one and like it, that's all that matters. We all own and drive our own cars. The only person we need to please is ourself
06-06-2008, 07:42 AM
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+1 "Turbo engines are a different story. The hot air goes through the intercooler where it is cooled."
Shiv explained that TURBO cars with tunes that run 340hp+ greatly benefit from these dual cone filters. He proved that point with dyno sheets. He also said that if you have a stock setup, then a stock airbox will do just like the cone filters. My car will be running some kind of tune that will boost it to 340-350WHP that's why i'm looking into getting this mod to optimize performance.
Still waiting on some turbo back exhaust then i'm done with engine mods... or not, there's an upgraded intercooler and oil cooler too! Damn this car is making me bankrupt! Haha!
Shiv explained that TURBO cars with tunes that run 340hp+ greatly benefit from these dual cone filters. He proved that point with dyno sheets. He also said that if you have a stock setup, then a stock airbox will do just like the cone filters. My car will be running some kind of tune that will boost it to 340-350WHP that's why i'm looking into getting this mod to optimize performance.
Still waiting on some turbo back exhaust then i'm done with engine mods... or not, there's an upgraded intercooler and oil cooler too! Damn this car is making me bankrupt! Haha!
06-06-2008, 08:22 AM
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+1 "It is more about increasing airflow, rather than lowering air temps."
This info came from the thread posted by shiv...
What about cold air ducting?
The truth behind the matter is that lack of restriction is far more important than "cold air ducting". Especially in intercooled turbo systems. In such a system, the only temperature that matters is that of the air as it enters the intake manifold. But this air has already been on a long journey. It originally entered the system at the air filters. Then it travelled through the turbos, through a bunch of piping, then through the intercooler, through more piping and only then to the intake manifold. With the exception of when it passed through the intercooler, the air picked up heat at every stop. The largest heat gain occurred in the turbo during the compression stage. Here, air temps can easily rise by 150 deg F. A whole lot more than the 10-30 deg F gained from drawing air from under the hood (and not through a cold air box.)
With the vast majority of heat generated in the compression stage, it makes sense to address this stage and see what we can do to cool things down. First of all, we can actually reduce the amount of compression. And yes, we can do this without reducing boost pressure simply by eliminating the negative pressure (vacuum) at the turbocharger inlet. This reduces the pressure ratio which makes the turbo spin slower and generates less heat. And not only is there less heat generated through the reduction in compressor RPM, the amount of exhaust backpressure is also reduced. Add both effects together and you get a car that makes more power with less stress on the turbo. In fact, at 14-15psi of boost, our Dual Intake system offers a 15-25whp advantage over the stock cold air ducted airbox. And not only that, intake temps at the intake manifold is measurably cooler (that's what datalogging is for!).
This info came from the thread posted by shiv...
What about cold air ducting?
The truth behind the matter is that lack of restriction is far more important than "cold air ducting". Especially in intercooled turbo systems. In such a system, the only temperature that matters is that of the air as it enters the intake manifold. But this air has already been on a long journey. It originally entered the system at the air filters. Then it travelled through the turbos, through a bunch of piping, then through the intercooler, through more piping and only then to the intake manifold. With the exception of when it passed through the intercooler, the air picked up heat at every stop. The largest heat gain occurred in the turbo during the compression stage. Here, air temps can easily rise by 150 deg F. A whole lot more than the 10-30 deg F gained from drawing air from under the hood (and not through a cold air box.)
With the vast majority of heat generated in the compression stage, it makes sense to address this stage and see what we can do to cool things down. First of all, we can actually reduce the amount of compression. And yes, we can do this without reducing boost pressure simply by eliminating the negative pressure (vacuum) at the turbocharger inlet. This reduces the pressure ratio which makes the turbo spin slower and generates less heat. And not only is there less heat generated through the reduction in compressor RPM, the amount of exhaust backpressure is also reduced. Add both effects together and you get a car that makes more power with less stress on the turbo. In fact, at 14-15psi of boost, our Dual Intake system offers a 15-25whp advantage over the stock cold air ducted airbox. And not only that, intake temps at the intake manifold is measurably cooler (that's what datalogging is for!).
06-06-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jcool10181' post='597073' date='Jun 6 2008, 09:22 AM
+1 "It is more about increasing airflow, rather than lowering air temps."
This info came from the thread posted by shiv...
What about cold air ducting?
The truth behind the matter is that lack of restriction is far more important than "cold air ducting". Especially in intercooled turbo systems. In such a system, the only temperature that matters is that of the air as it enters the intake manifold. But this air has already been on a long journey. It originally entered the system at the air filters. Then it travelled through the turbos, through a bunch of piping, then through the intercooler, through more piping and only then to the intake manifold. With the exception of when it passed through the intercooler, the air picked up heat at every stop. The largest heat gain occurred in the turbo during the compression stage. Here, air temps can easily rise by 150 deg F. A whole lot more than the 10-30 deg F gained from drawing air from under the hood (and not through a cold air box.)
With the vast majority of heat generated in the compression stage, it makes sense to address this stage and see what we can do to cool things down. First of all, we can actually reduce the amount of compression. And yes, we can do this without reducing boost pressure simply by eliminating the negative pressure (vacuum) at the turbocharger inlet. This reduces the pressure ratio which makes the turbo spin slower and generates less heat. And not only is there less heat generated through the reduction in compressor RPM, the amount of exhaust backpressure is also reduced. Add both effects together and you get a car that makes more power with less stress on the turbo. In fact, at 14-15psi of boost, our Dual Intake system offers a 15-25whp advantage over the stock cold air ducted airbox. And not only that, intake temps at the intake manifold is measurably cooler (that's what datalogging is for!).
This info came from the thread posted by shiv...
What about cold air ducting?
The truth behind the matter is that lack of restriction is far more important than "cold air ducting". Especially in intercooled turbo systems. In such a system, the only temperature that matters is that of the air as it enters the intake manifold. But this air has already been on a long journey. It originally entered the system at the air filters. Then it travelled through the turbos, through a bunch of piping, then through the intercooler, through more piping and only then to the intake manifold. With the exception of when it passed through the intercooler, the air picked up heat at every stop. The largest heat gain occurred in the turbo during the compression stage. Here, air temps can easily rise by 150 deg F. A whole lot more than the 10-30 deg F gained from drawing air from under the hood (and not through a cold air box.)
With the vast majority of heat generated in the compression stage, it makes sense to address this stage and see what we can do to cool things down. First of all, we can actually reduce the amount of compression. And yes, we can do this without reducing boost pressure simply by eliminating the negative pressure (vacuum) at the turbocharger inlet. This reduces the pressure ratio which makes the turbo spin slower and generates less heat. And not only is there less heat generated through the reduction in compressor RPM, the amount of exhaust backpressure is also reduced. Add both effects together and you get a car that makes more power with less stress on the turbo. In fact, at 14-15psi of boost, our Dual Intake system offers a 15-25whp advantage over the stock cold air ducted airbox. And not only that, intake temps at the intake manifold is measurably cooler (that's what datalogging is for!).
